Volvo cancels D16; Mack cancels Titan tractor

[Dirtymilkman]

48 minutes ago, logtruckman said:

Last year when the new volvo CEO took over they were saying all brands would have more autonomy and be responsible to turn a profit  . Maybe we'll see changes soon ?? I'm not holding my breath though . I wonder if any mack designers ,engineers  visit this site to get advice ? 

You mean "engineer"

[kscarbel2]

6 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

If Mack sold less than half the trucks as Volvo does I could almost understand the lack of freedom and respect. But when Mack sales numbers almost match Volvo that should say something. Foolish Volvo pride. If Mack had their freedom I believe they would outsell Volvo

But Mack brand sales do not almost match Volvo. They're giving Renault more attention because it is the group's growth leader.

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Q4 2016 Volvo brand global truck sales - 27,934 units.

Q4 2016 Mack brand global truck sales - 4,119 units.

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Q4 2016 Volvo brand truck sales in North America - 4,458 units.

Q4 2016 Mack brand truck sales in North America - 3,551 units.

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More info - https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48625-volvo-group-–-2016-4th-quarter-and-full-year-earnings-report/

[Dirtymilkman]

I meant sales in the states. 

[kscarbel2]

1 hour ago, Dirtymilkman said:

I meant sales in the states. 

Volvo, depending on the on-highway market almost exclusively for sales due to the failure of the VHD to attract sales, took a hit in 2016 when a weak economy drove fleets to cut orders,

Once the economy takes off again, and with it tractor sales, Volvo will once more outsell the Mack brand by nearly 2 to 1.

Mack of course at one time dominated construction and refuse. Now largely dependent on those segments owing to its small market share in tractors, Mack has seen its market share in construction and refuse dwindle in the face of strong competition from Paccar and others.

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Sales Results: Volvo versus Mack (North American market)

 

Full Year 2016            Volvo   21,686 units     (23.3% greater sales than Mack)

                                    Mack   17,167

 

Q4 2016                      Volvo   4,458               (22.6% greater sales than Mack)

Mack   3,551

 

Q3 2016                      Volvo   4,645               (25.9% greater sales than Mack)

                                    Mack   3,581

 

Q2 2016                      Volvo   6,786               (26.6% greater sales than Mack)

                                    Mack   5,192

 

Q1 2016                      Volvo   5,797               (17.9% greater sales than Mack)

                                    Mack   4,843

 

Full Year 2015            Volvo   38,890             (42.3% greater sales than Mack)

                                    Mack   25,302

 

Q4 2015                      Volvo   8,756               (28.8% greater sales than Mack)

                                    Mack   6,553

 

Q3 2015                      Volvo   9,147               (39.9% greater sales than Mack)

                                    Mack   6,105

 

Q2 2015                      Volvo   11,208             (52.5% greater sales than Mack)

                                    Mack   6,547

 

Q1 2015                      Volvo   9,779               (46.4% greater sales than Mack)

                                    Mack   6,097

 

Full Year 2014            Volvo   33,800             (35.4% greater sales than Mack)

                                    Mack   23,634

 

Full Year 2013            Volvo   26,066             (35.3% greater sales than Mack)

                                    Mack   18,244

[Red Horse]

23 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

If Mack sold less than half the trucks as Volvo does I could almost understand the lack of freedom and respect. But when Mack sales numbers almost match Volvo that should say something. Foolish Volvo pride. If Mack had their freedom I believe they would outsell Volvo

YTD-Mack 8.61% of class 8, Volvo 10.27%.   And you can bet the average transaction price (ATP-that I'm told is the magic buzz phrase when it comes to profitability) of the Macks is much higher.  How much of that 10.27% of the Volvo figure is a rock bottom deal to the Swifts of the world.

[DSCannon]

My experience has been is more of a Greensboro NC issue than it is a corporate Volvo issue. Non truck people making decisions about what happens in the US. Mack Australia does what is needs so there is leeway within Volvo world. You just need the right Americans to drive the US market. We have talked with engineers who are completely depressed about what happened to Titan, MP10, D16. There needs to be a cleansing of non truck folks in NC.

[kscarbel2]

Even in the Russian market, the demise of the North American market Titan hasn't gone unnoticed.

https://autoreview.ru/articles/gruzoviki-i-avtobusy/Mack-Titan

 

[Dirtymilkman]

1 hour ago, kscarbel2 said:

Even in the Russian market, the demise of the North American market Titan hasn't gone unnoticed.

https://autoreview.ru/articles/gruzoviki-i-avtobusy/Mack-Titan

 

Kind of embarrassing for Mack. 

[james j neiweem]

DS -Good information. Let us know if there are any positive changes.

[kscarbel2]

Mack and Volvo announce the end of the 16-litre in the North American market. 

Power Torque Magazine  /  March 25, 2017

It’s the end of the line for the Volvo D16 and Mack MP10 engine in the American market with both manufacturers announcing the withdrawal of the engine from the product line up, with each company citing “diminishing demand” as the reason for the cancellation.

Introduced into the U.S. in 2005, the D16 offered displacement of 550 to 625 hp – mainly at heavy haul applications. Similarly, Mack Trucks, will no longer be offering its large displacement MP10 engine, which is based on the D16. Mack is also discontinuing sales of its Titan heavy haul prime mover as well. 

“The decision to withdraw the D16 and MP10 16 litre is the result of limited market demand for this engine displacement and the long-term investment that would be required to maintain the D16 for the unique operating requirements of the North American market,” a spokesperson for Volvo Trucks said.  

The D16 engine was available in Volvo’s VNL and VNX models. The VNL will continue to be available with the Volvo D11, D13 and Cummins X15 engines, while production of the VNX – introduced in 2013 – will be placed “on hold” though it will remain in Volvo’s product lineup for now. 

The company is currently evaluating solutions that will allow it to offer it in the future. In the interim, it intends to offer an ‘X-package’ for the VNL model, providing the ride height and heavy-haul attributes of the VNX with either the Volvo D13 or Cummins X15 engine,” the spokesperson added.  

Sources within the industry suggest that the engineering development costs necessary to calibrate both the D16 and MP10 engines for full Euro 6 emissions  compliance will be too expensive to justify keeping either engine in the European product range, resulting in their withdrawal from global sales for sophisticated markets by the close of 2017 or early 2018. This would leave both Volvo and Mack dependent on their 13-litre engine range for most configurations, augmented by the availability of the Cummins X15 engine option. 

[41180]

hmm so if Imy reading this right it sounds like volvo is pulling the plug in the d16 world wide in 2018 ? I wonder if there's a new engine in the works maybe smaller lighter 14 or 15 liter . I doubt it. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

I suspect sales of the top of the line FH16 in Europe are very profitable, and Volvo doesn't want to share those profits with Cummins. This shows the wisdom of the Mack/Scania V8, by using many of the modular basics of the inline 6 design the development and tooling costs for the V8 are much lower than Volvo's low volume 16 liter engine.

[DSCannon]

Volvo won't kill the D16 in Europe based on two reasons, FH16 is their flag ship product and Penta uses the majority of D16 engines globally. Cummins can't replace both markets that primarily use staged turbo systems with HP levels way over 600. The single turbo engines in US, Canada and Mack Australia will be replaced with X15. Volvo won't put up the cash to develop those engines for future emissions regulations. The North Carolina crowd couldn't ultimately figure out how to sell big power in US and Canada. Plus Cummins got their hands into the Carolinians pockets and swayed the decision.

[41180]

12 hours ago, DSCannon said:

Volvo won't kill the D16 in Europe based on two reasons, FH16 is their flag ship product and Penta uses the majority of D16 engines globally. Cummins can't replace both markets that primarily use staged turbo systems with HP levels way over 600. The single turbo engines in US, Canada and Mack Australia will be replaced with X15. Volvo won't put up the cash to develop those engines for future emissions regulations. The North Carolina crowd couldn't ultimately figure out how to sell big power in US and Canada. Plus Cummins got their hands into the Carolinians pockets and swayed the decision.

will mack north America get a truck capable of having a cummins x15 under the hood. I've looked at granites and the mp8:is stuffed pretty tight . I'd be happy with a long nosed granite with a cummins 605  hp

Edited March 29, 2017 by logtruckman