thomastractorsvc Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I was talking with a couple companys about extending my frame on the 92 Superliner to accomadate a 16ft bed. After the adding the couple of feet they were going to roll the axles back and redrill and put a lift axle in front. While taking a shower I was thinking about all the pulp trucks I ran years ago most were spring lift or mounted so that when weight was put on the truck it would compress the suspension for the added capacity. Also most of the mixer trucks around here have tag axles unless they have the strong arm then its that and a pusher. Has anyone seen a tag axle triaxle dump? Quote Robert"I reject your reality and substitute my own." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlotpilot Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, thomastractorsvc said: I was talking with a couple companys about extending my frame on the 92 Superliner to accomadate a 16ft bed. After the adding the couple of feet they were going to roll the axles back and redrill and put a lift axle in front. While taking a shower I was thinking about all the pulp trucks I ran years ago most were spring lift or mounted so that when weight was put on the truck it would compress the suspension for the added capacity. Also most of the mixer trucks around here have tag axles unless they have the strong arm then its that and a pusher. Has anyone seen a tag axle triaxle dump? used to be a guy in frederickburg va that had a 7 axle set up 2 behind the drives and 2 in front Edited February 25, 2017 by carlotpilot Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastractorsvc Posted February 25, 2017 Author Share Posted February 25, 2017 I was wondering if it was a regional thing based on bridge weight or something like that. I seen a pictures on the internet with a pusher in front and tag on rear looked like a michigan set up. As long as the the tag was down when dumping I cant see what the issue would be unless it may get tippy but with two axles spring suspension in the front I would thik it would be to bad unless it was like a 19 or 20 footer. Quote Robert"I reject your reality and substitute my own." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlotpilot Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) the rig i`m talking about was a white -gmc 22'coal body .he was playing a game with weights and measures but he got the truck to where he could legaly haul 26 tons payload all axles were on air except steer Edited February 25, 2017 by carlotpilot Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobert62 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I think a benefit for the lift axle behind the drives is to give a shorter turning radius with it raised. 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdog2 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Good for plant to plant not good for off road, Quote Ed Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatcity Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 in off road situations, the tag may catch and hold you up-had to get pulled out once because of it as stated, the shorter wb does make it easier for sharp turns many times I drop the tag when dumping to keep the body in line, BUT a more rigid spring suspension would be better but then, I have a 24 foot body Quote Success is only a stones throw away.................................................................for a Palestinian Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamsterGrrrl Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 A lot of the companies that make tags recommend against using them on dump trucks because of the extremely heavy loads on the rearmost axle when dumping. There is also the issue of frame strength- Was your Mack's frame designed to carry as much weight as you're proposing? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I work with many dump trucks with lift axle behind rear drives but here is something to think about.If your hauling mostly asphalt i would not do that.Reason is when you back into a laydown machine with the over hang behind the drives it is hard to stay in the laydown machine with your apron when laying asphalt around a slight corner.With some of the big laydown machines its not that big of a problem.If you haul only rock then go for it. The good thing about mounting a drop behind drives is your drive wheel alignment is not changed.But the Ackermann geometry on the steer axle is. And yes the frame extension has to be done right with good frame rail to be able to carry the load at the end of the frame. 1 Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastractorsvc Posted February 25, 2017 Author Share Posted February 25, 2017 3 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said: A lot of the companies that make tags recommend against using them on dump trucks because of the extremely heavy loads on the rearmost axle when dumping. There is also the issue of frame strength- Was your Mack's frame designed to carry as much weight as you're proposing? Its a double frame on 44K camel back and if I decide to do it I will only be adding less than 3 feet over all for a 16ft bed. Right now I could squeeze a 15 ft on but would be tight up at the cab. I not sure yet what to do was just brain storming and trying to see what everyone has seen. If i could find a decent dump trailer I would do that but I am not going to spend 20K on one and then rebuild it. As dump truck season picks up I will have to make a decision. 2 hours ago, theakerstwo said: I work with many dump trucks with lift axle behind rear drives but here is something to think about.If your hauling mostly asphalt i would not do that.Reason is when you back into a laydown machine with the over hang behind the drives it is hard to stay in the laydown machine with your apron when laying asphalt around a slight corner.With some of the big laydown machines its not that big of a problem.If you haul only rock then go for it. The good thing about mounting a drop behind drives is your drive wheel alignment is not changed.But the Ackermann geometry on the steer axle is. And yes the frame extension has to be done right with good frame rail to be able to carry the load at the end of the frame. I don't do asphalt just rock and dirt and I was hoping to save some money at the body builder if I went with the tag on the rear. To have it stretched, axles moved and lift installed its around 7K without a bed. It would be $4500 to just add the frame and tag to the rear. Quote Robert"I reject your reality and substitute my own." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamsterGrrrl Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I assume you're weight limit is set by Bridge Formula around KC, does the extra wheelbase give you that much more payload? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastractorsvc Posted February 25, 2017 Author Share Posted February 25, 2017 yes and no they have a commercial zone that goes by tire/axle up to 22400 each if tires are rated for it, outside of the zone it is by bridge formula. My tandem can carry 15 tons outside the zone at around 52500lbs (Bridge Formula), in the zone I can go up to 67200lbs with the same truck. Although I am tagged at 54K so I never run over my plates in the zone, its an 85 do not want to break it. Most triaxles here are 15 to 16 ft beds can go up to and not exceed 80K in the zone but uses bridge formula outside the zone so most only carry 16 to 17 tons legally with pushers. Using a tag would increase the length for bridge and should be able to get a few more tons. A strong arm on the rear is good for another 10K so if I could get half that I would be happy. Quote Robert"I reject your reality and substitute my own." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamsterGrrrl Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 On a 25 year old truck I'd probably leave it just like it is, probably never make back the cost of adding axles, stretch, etc.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outbehindthebarn Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 We ran milk trucks around here that were spec'd for flat country, tag in the back.... when we ran them here, lifting the axle on an incline with a load on ..... took the weight off the steer couldn't turn worth a darn. Don't know the lay of the land in your country, but definitely something to consider. Quote Fun is what they fine you for!My name is Bob Buckman sir,. . . and I hate truckers. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobert62 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I think the tri-axles around here haul around 23 ton. Tags are for 73,280 I believe. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
57 bcr Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Like many,I agree the stress put on the end of the frame to do the tag vs. pusher deal is not worth the shorter turning radius you would be gaining. My cousin works for a paving outfit in Michigan that tried that concept on a group of DM's they bought in the early '90's. The results were disasterious. Frame damage was the norm on the back of these trucks. The guy that spec'd the trucks out,made sure the tags would dump the air as soon as the tranny was it put reverse. Needless to say,none of their trucks have been spec'd like this since. They went back to the 2 pusher system on quad axle trucks.Would leaving the tags down while dumping,relieved the stress put on the rear frame of these trucks,maybe. That was in a fleet enviroment also. An O/O enviroment like yours,Robert I would venture to say you would do the "right thing" to prevent such damage,as you would be the guy fixing the problem if/when it happened. O/O's (for the most part) do a pretty good job in controlling their destiny. Their very existance depends on it. Al 1 Quote IF YOU BOUGHT IT, A TRUCK BROUGHT IT..AND WHEN YOU'RE DONE WITH IT, A TRUCK WILL HAUL IT AWAY!!! Big John Trimble,WRVA Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdog2 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 A company I work for had milk delivery trucks with tag on the rear going in out of the stores would get hung up and pull it with a pic-up couple times a year then it got stuck in gear on the mix-master the towing company pick it up from the rear and broke in half . Quote Ed Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 An 8x2*6 would be an efficient set up, while at the same time providing optimum weight distribution for reduced road wear. Twin Steer (front axles) 6 wheel steering (twin steer plus the steered tag) Lockable differential on the drive. Or a 10x4*6 (tandem drive bogie with steered tag) Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdog405 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I'll buy the '92 and solve your problems. lol 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Can you add a steerable lift axle in front of the tandems and use a 14-15 foot body with 60" sides,my truck only has a 14.5 body with 5' sides and I can Easley put 24 tons of asphalt,I added a 20,00 steerable lift in front of 58 rears,it was tight but it fit. But I'm in down state ny,with my grandfathered permit I only need 16' of wheel base with the right axle and tire ratings I can gross 79,000! Edited February 26, 2017 by MACKS 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyT Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Most tri-axle dumps in Florida have the tag in front. On most of the heavier spec'd units, the tag is steerable. However in Florida, as hatcity can attest, the sandy soil makes it easy to get stuck! So a tag behind the drive needs to be "dumped" if backing into sandy soil to dump! I drove a B model single axle with a rear tag (an ex-road tractor) dumping into house pads, you had to crank it thru the compound in reverse and dump the tag the second it left the pavement or you would get stuck! Of course with a full screw locked in, you had more traction! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastractorsvc Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 17 hours ago, superdog405 said: I'll buy the '92 and solve your problems. lol Make your offer before March 7 that's when insurance premiums are due. Quote Robert"I reject your reality and substitute my own." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastractorsvc Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 15 hours ago, MACKS said: Can you add a steerable lift axle in front of the tandems and use a 14-15 foot body with 60" sides,my truck only has a 14.5 body with 5' sides and I can Easley put 24 tons of asphalt,I added a 20,00 steerable lift in front of 58 rears,it was tight but it fit. But I'm in down state ny,with my grandfathered permit I only need 16' of wheel base with the right axle and tire ratings I can gross 79,000! I thought about it but with the two different weight zones it would only be feasible for use in the Comercial Zone as it wouldn't really increase capacity outside that zone as the bridge wouldn't increase and the added weight of the additional axle would cancel any gains. I just really need to find a good dump trailer. 1 Quote Robert"I reject your reality and substitute my own." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thomastractorsvc Posted February 27, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 27, 2017 On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 6:03 PM, TeamsterGrrrl said: On a 25 year old truck I'd probably leave it just like it is, probably never make back the cost of adding axles, stretch, etc.. I could make back the cost of the length streach and lift axle within no time as the truck is paid for and I have a 15ft bed sitting here at the house. My thoughts were adding a tag to the rear would be less expensive and would not have to mess with moving the axles. A 25 year old truck is what I want. I have no desire to make $4000 a month payments and worry about how many nickels I need to rub together waiting on call backs or having to haul asphalt by the ton and running overweight to to make up for the overbooking of trucks and only getting three loads a day while sitting at the jobsite waiting for the other 15 trucks to dump ahead of me. With my 32 year old truck (1985 RWL 15ft dump) that is paid for I only take work that is by the hour and I am not forced to haul asphalt by the ton. All things being equal i.e. a triaxle dump 25 years old or brand new 2017 dump truck makes the same money per hour, my business model venture doesn't require the extra overhead. 7 Quote Robert"I reject your reality and substitute my own." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 The idea is to make money so keep the truck u have in my opinion,that's why I added the drop to my CL when the weight laws changed,58 rears n all,gets the job done with ease,my buddy did the same and his truck is an 85 RD,we got the toughest trucks around lol and we work almost ever day..Good luck and keep us posted. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/48891-tag-or-pusher-lift-axle-on-dump-truck/#findComment-362786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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