Mack AP built date and delivery history

[Mack_M123]

Maybe someone can help me, I bought a 1933 (I think) Mack AP Type 19 Pumper Firetruck, I think 750gpm pump, seller says it have a Mack built pump and they only use it up to 1932? It does habe the big AP 707cui 150hp 6inline gas engine. Could someone tell me more history info/built date from the serial #6AP6S 1061 or to which department it was delivered, Cincinatti CFD? If not where can I get further Infos?  I found the same looking AP Type 19 model serial #1050 from Cincinatti FD at internet and they say built 1933 but if true...Wondering some AP`s have the 7 big squared side Hood louvers and other the slotted ones and both trucks should be from 1932 or 1933, or with the slotted ones are BG models? The 1933 have normal steel rims and 1932 cast spokes?

Thanks, Matt

[mowerman]

Looks pretty good can't help you with info but I'm sure somebody will....bob

[Brocky]

Send your request, along with a donation, to the Mack Museum in Allentown..You will receive a big info package in return..

[Mack_M123]

Ok sounds good thanks, maybe someone know Infos also here

[1958 F.W.D.]

I do not know of anyone that has a delivery or other database of model AP fire apparatus. 

As Brocky stated, you are welcome to use the following link to contact the Mack Trucks Museum in Allentown Pa which has the build documents archived. 

http://www.macktrucks.com/about-mack/museum/contact-us/

All inquiries take approx 6-8 weeks due to the amount of requests and the limited staff to process requests. It is also requested that you send a proper donation as the museum does have limited funding from Corporate and they expend a lot of time and money to process requests (photocopier maintenance, paper, shipping etc.)

[fxfymn]

Another good source of information is Harvey Eckart's book on Mack fire apparatus. https://www.amazon.com/Mack-Fire-Trucks-1911-2005-Illustrated/dp/1583881573/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488805968&sr=8-1&keywords=harvey+eckart

I see you are in Europe. Is, or was, the rig lettered "Kellog FD"? 

[bulldogboy]

 This particular engine is an early "B" model, not an "AP". The "AP" model was a more powerful version of the "AC" model including the famed sloped "Bulldog" hood. According to Harvey Eckart in his book,

"Mack Fire Trucks, 1911-2005", the Type 19 used a Mack "BQ" chassis with a 150 HP "AP" motor and a 750 or 1,000 GPM pump. I guess that would make it a hybrid, "BQ" chassis with an "AP" motor. Early "B"s were built from 1928 to 1937. I often reference Harvey Eckart's work because it is so thorough and knowledgeable and I don't want anyone to think that I actually know what I'm talking about.

                                                                                            bulldogboy

[mackdaddy]

This is a former AP Mack fire truck 1928 vintage.

[Mack_M123]

Thanks all for information. Just wondering because at the the ID plate in the cab is staying model AP and why not BQ and this only means the engine and the VIN's AP also stays for engine type...

[Mack_M123]

 

No there no remains of any letters or Kellog on the hood or anywhere else, also wondering because the paint looks old. They also do not stenceling any FD letters on a pumper? You saw the same model pumper here in Europe?

What do you think about the built date 1932-33 could be? 

Does anybody knows the exact engine type EN..707....and more data like torque and rpm limit at 150hp, 2100?

Thanks Matt

[fxfymn]

Quote

You saw the same model pumper here in Europe?

I am not sure, but I don't think so. Cal Little did a complete restoration of an early B model which ended up in the Netherlands. If you do some research on this site it should turn up. It was originally from Kellog, ID.

[Mack58B42]

Everything in Robert B. Marvin's Mack Apparatus book also points to it being a B Early Series truck....  And a 707 would have been an available option for it.  I think that motor was also known as the AP motor, so perhaps that's where that number in the S/N comes from....

It does appear to be a Cincinnati rig.  According to the "Motorized Apparatus of Cincinatti" website, here's what they show:  6AP6S 1061 1935 Mack    750    100   25146    En 46     IS 4-29-35

Here's a link to that site if you want to check it out: http://www.cfdhistory.com/htmls/apparatus.html 

So, it matches your s/n, but they show that it and its twins, 1059, 1060, and 1062 were all purchased in 1935, just a tad later than you thought.  And it served as Engine 46 going in service in 4/29/35 (so it may be a 1934 on the paperwork), and was a 750gpm pumper with a 100 gallon tank.  The site notes that the number 25146 is the "shop number".  It's the only one of the four that it notes that for, so I wonder if this one was modified by Cincinnati's shop after delivery, or if that's Mack's build number.

As Brocky and 1958 F.W.D note, the Mack museum can offer you all the relevant info on your truck based on the serial number, including all the specs, delivery sheets, pics, and any other information that they might have on it.....

Anyway - it's a beautiful truck.

Below are a picture of the truck in service (it's only a thumbnail and a bit blurry - sorry) (in the center), the station that it was housed in when new (top), and a shot of Engine 31, which, although I can't verify it, I think is one of the other 3 trucks purchased by Cincinnati at the same time as yours (bottom)....

[fxfymn]

Nice research. The folks on this site never cease to amaze me.

The delivery picture would make sense. Mack took pictures of only one rig out of a group of identical apparatus that were delivered together.

[Mack_M123]

Many thanks for the Informations on that trucks!! I already look at the cfd side last week but not so intensive and saw the old black/white pic and VIN #close to mine as I posted, also wrote an email but no reply and thought also that it was in service for CFD. Actually it have 50s paint on maybe 60s and it have a 1 on both sides so ENG1 from another smaller town FD? Still wondering that it will be an early B Model BQ and not AP, I looked at other VIN`s so early B`s also have that series in the VIN like 6BG....So it must be built in 1934. Still wondering that it was delivered with steel rims, nearly all others where delivered with cast spokes from Mack, maybe cast are heavy duty for heavier load? Saw also early pumpers with dual rear tires, this have single. Still waiting what the Mack Museum mailing.

I don`t find anything from that Kellog rig which should be in the Netherlands....

Greetings Matt

[Mack_M123]

Maybe I also post a pic from the dashboard layout, the AP and early B use different styles, this one have the tach completely to the left and the speedo in center.

[fxfymn]

Here is a link to the Kellog rig: 

 

[1958 F.W.D.]

6 hours ago, Mack_M123 said:

.Still waiting what the Mack Museum mailing.

6-8 week wait time.

[mackb67]

My ex-Detroit 1929 Type 19 is listed on the ID tag as an APDR, louvered hood and disc type wheels

[Mack_M123]

And what model in real BG, BQ or really AP? You mean the slotted louvers not the 7 spuare ones?

[mackb67]

Birthday picture of my Type 19 or 1 of its two brothers

[41chevy]

 For what it is worth. Here is the Connecticut Trolley Museums 1930(?) AP and their 1935  B  series Type 55 Unit. Seems to have a lot of similarities with your unit. Paul

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by 41chevy

[bulldogboy]

16 hours ago, 41chevy said:

 For what it is worth. Here is the Connecticut Trolley Museums 1930(?) AP and their 1935  B  series Type 55 Unit. Seems to have a lot of similarities with your unit. Paul

 

This information is from the Connecticut Trolley Museum's website:

The 1927 Mack "AP" 1000/150 was delivered to the Willimantic, CT Fire Department, one of two "AP"s delivered to WFD that year, the other being a 75' TDA. In 1954 it was sold to the Willington Hill, CT 

Fire Department. It was WHFD's first truck. CTM acquired it in 1968.

The 1936 Mack is a "BM", 600 GPM model. It was originally purchased by the West Springfield, MA. Fire Department. Its last assignment was at WSFD's station at the Eastern States Exposition. This station

is only open during the exposition's fall show.

CTM also owns a 1947 Mack "Type 45" semi-cab pumper that originally served the Hingham, MA Fire Department.

CTM looks like a nice place to visit; has anyone been there? The Eastern States Expo is a great take in the fall but try to visit on a weekday; weekends are "wicked" crowded with traffic backed up to I-90.

                                                          bulldogboy

Edited March 12, 2017 by bulldogboy

[41chevy]

We were there in the mid 90's after a family re union in Cheshire, We went to Mystic to see the Morgan and to Groton to the Sub Force Museum to see the Nautilus. The trolley museum is more than trolleys and trains, well worth the trip. Paid for entry at the ticket station and than took a Trolley to the museum. Expect to spend at least a full day there.

[Mack_M123]

Hello Everybody. I put out the fuel and booster tank so the pump could be good seen and I wondering it's really a Mack built 750 gpm pump not std. Northern or Hale. In which time period did they built their own pumps, 1934 fits? It also looks like a different non rotary type design, there are one driveshaft from the trans and divided with a gear ratio in two which going in the pump, looks like a roots blower design Inside like Detroit Diesel have...?

[Mack_M123]

Yes I know up to 36 they named International. I've found also another later logo found with MT Mack Truck. Do you know with pump style it is, does not look like Ahrens Fox piston  type.

Thanks Matt