Ford Offers CK-4 Alternative Oil for Super Duty Diesels

[kscarbel2]

Heavy Duty Trucking  /  March 20, 2017

Ford is recommending the use of a new Motorcraft diesel engine oil for its Super Duty trucks and warning fleet and commercial customers to avoid using most new CK-4 or FA-4 oils because they may cause damage to the engine, the company told AutomotiveFleet.com.

Motocraft's WSS-M2C171-F1 formulation should be used in all Power Stroke diesels, especially the 6.7L that powers the F-250, F-350, and F-450, because it better protects the engine against high-mileage wear, according to Ford.

Ford had previously recommended CJ-4 formulations for its Super Duty trucks.

On Dec. 1, the American Petroleum Institute began licensing the new CK-4 and FA-4 oils. CJ-4 oils will eventually be phased out.

Commercial users should avoid the FA-4 formulation due to its low viscosity. CK-4 motor oils should be avoided because they provide "inadequate wear protection," according to a statement.

The oil certification information is located on the back of an oil pouch in a circle known as the API donut.

Customers should NOT use oils labeled CK-4/SN unless they have been approved by Ford to meet WSS-M2C171-F1. This is possible with SAE 10W-40, 15W-40, 5W-40 and 0W-40 oils. SAE 10W-30 oils showing CK-4/SN cannot meet WSS-M2C171-F1.

Motorcraft Super Duty diesel motor oil is formulated with premium hydroprocessed base oils and additive technology necessary to meet WSS-M2C171-F1. This new oil also meets the requirements of Cummins CES20086, Detroit Diesel 93K222, Volvo VDS-4.5 and Mack EOS-4.5, according to Ford.

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[Red Horse]

Wow-this sounds like a big can of worms.  How many people are going to be looking for that CK-4 designation in the donut. And what do the manuals that came with trucks built a month or two ago say?  This sounds like it has the makings of a warranty nightmare.

[RoadwayR]

I have already heard of 6.7L Powerstroke owners buying up all the CJ-4 oil they can find at Walmart, ect..  Funny thing is Ford was recommending 5W-30 in these engines, an oddball viscosity for truck diesel engines.  Now this.  That having been said, warranty might not be too much of a big deal as long as the proper oil is readily available.  What I see that will be a problem is fleets with other makes of diesels that want to run CK-4 5W-40 in everything.     

[fxfymn]

$70K for a nice Ford HD pick up and now they want to squeeze the customer to buy their oil as well? I'd have some serious concerns about buying a new Ford based on that.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Already been through this with VW and their "504" and now "507" oddball oil specs... Which do nothing but promote inefficiency and misoiling. I know of one VW dealer that was charging $200 for a "VW synthetic oil and filter change" and putting in 10W-30 bulk conventional oil. VW dealer near me had been honest and is using the proper $8 a liter VW oil, but because they sell Chevy and Nissan too they don't have enough volume to get the VW oil in bulk and waste time refilling crankcases from liter bottles! This oddball standard will probably back fire for Ford too, fleets don't like to carry a bunch of different oils for their diverse fleets, in a lot of cases if it won't run on the 15W-40 they get in bulk, they won't buy it! Expect a GM ad pointing this Ford F-up soon, a la the (loaded) toolbox thrown at the aluminum Ford pickup bed...

[BillyT]

Teamster Grrrl, in 2003 my wife bought her first " econobox", a 1.8L Corolla. Prior to that, I used 15w40 Rotella T in every internal combustion engine I owned!  Wanting to preserve her warranty I stopped at the Toyota dealer and asked the counterman what oil was recommended for her car! He misunderstood me ,thought I wanted to know what it cost for an oil change! One hundred dollars 2003! That's 4.2 qts of oil one spin on filter! 10/w30 oil. I explained I wanted to know what oil do you recommend. He hands.me a generic quart of 10/30  oil,3.50$!  Rotella only sells 10/30 by special order,no discount,so I get Castrol gtx at Sam's club by the case, about 2.00 a qt and a fram or a.c. Delco filter for 3.90 at wal Mart. So 12.00 in round figures! And one half hrs. Labor( I'm slow!) There have been numerous videos at Jiffy lube type places and dealership shops showing how they don't do what they are paid to do! One of their favorite ploys is cleaning your injection system. 8 ounces of Lucas additive eliminates that plus lubes the upper cylinder area! Every other fill up. Her 03 econobox  was totaled in a flood with 141000 mi no major repairs still smelled new! 

 

 

[kscarbel2]

1 hour ago, BillyT said:

Teamster Grrrl, in 2003 my wife bought her first " econobox", a 1.8L Corolla. Prior to that, I used 15w40 Rotella T in every internal combustion engine I owned!  Wanting to preserve her warranty I stopped at the Toyota dealer and asked the counterman what oil was recommended for her car! He misunderstood me ,thought I wanted to know what it cost for an oil change! One hundred dollars 2003! That's 4.2 qts of oil one spin on filter! 10/w30 oil. I explained I wanted to know what oil do you recommend. He hands.me a generic quart of 10/30  oil,3.50$!  Rotella only sells 10/30 by special order,no discount,so I get Castrol gtx at Sam's club by the case, about 2.00 a qt and a fram or a.c. Delco filter for 3.90 at wal Mart. So 12.00 in round figures! And one half hrs. Labor( I'm slow!) There have been numerous videos at Jiffy lube type places and dealership shops showing how they don't do what they are paid to do! One of their favorite ploys is cleaning your injection system. 8 ounces of Lucas additive eliminates that plus lubes the upper cylinder area! Every other fill up. Her 03 econobox  was totaled in a flood with 141000 mi no major repairs still smelled new!

Running 15W40 in a Corolla is terrible for the engine. Some oil companies promoted 15W40 oils they use in everything, but in truth, it wasn't the ideal oil for gasoline engines.

From 2010, as a result of new oil technology, the global standard for most American and Japanese cars is 0W-20. You'll get better fuel economy, and folks in colder climates can turn over the car easier on frigid mornings.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Rotella T is very popular with motorcyclists, as it's certified for wet clutches and has a lot of zinc to lube valve trains.

[fxfymn]

I can't help but wonder if this is really about making it harder for the customer to get Ford to honor the warranty when a catastrophic engine failure occurs.

A friend had the lower end go out of his 6.7 at 46K miles. Ford covered it, but refused to replace the engine, opting to rebuild the existing engine instead. Fortunately, my friend owned a company that had well over 100 Fords in the fleet so the dealer gave him the original purchase price of the truck towards a new truck when he expressed his unhappiness about the rebuild versus replacement issue.

[BillyT]

Ksb, you misunderstood me!  When I discovered Rotella  didn't offer 10/w 30 except by special order with no discount I bought Castrol gtx 10 w 30 by the case and  used it in the Corolla til it was totalled by flood at 141000 mi excellent results. The 2012 corolla she replaced it with as you suggested, calls for 0w/20 which was only available in Mobil 1@ 9.00 per qt I've never cared for Mobil 1, so I talked the manager at  Sam's club to stocking  Castrol Edge 0w/20 by the case about 6.00 a at! It costs me 34.00 in materials to change the oil in the 2012 corolla! They recommend you change it @10000, I reject this, I do it at 5 or 6000, or yearly whichever comes first. I maintain every vehicle like I'm going to keep it for life! However if I had to pay 200. For an oil change I might do it at 10000, but I'd sell it in 5 years like the average owner. The average Japanese style transverse engine with today's alloys and lubricants is good for 300000 miles without a major repair.assuming you replace the timing belt and water pump with an interference engine! My beloved 80 Fairmont wagon had 210000 no smoke no noises Rotella T 15/ 40 every 3000 mi the flood got it too! Was a 200  6 banger.

[BillyT]

Fxfymn, Its pretty obvious Ford didn't want to p...off such a loyal customer as your friend! I can't help but wonder how well a single vehicle owner would fare in the same situation! As for the problem with finding a specific grade of oil, you can approach the manager of Sam's club and explain why you think they should stock a certain oil oil brand and grade, and he will approach his or her superiors and they may approve stocking that oil! I did this in 2012 and they've stocked Castrol.Edge 0w/20 ever since! It is apparently selling, because every time I stop there are cases missing!  As for Rotella T being unsuitable for gasoline engines, It depends what engine you're talking about, and what climate you live in!  My 92 Isuzu has a solid lifter inline single overhead cam 4 banger, and I've used 15/40 rotella for almost 50000 of its 172000 miles and it shows no sign of wear! The manual recommends 10/w30, but I'm sure the internal clearances can deal with 10/w40 ! In my climate. Having said that, the modern engines tend to have tighter clearances and run a little warmer, so 0w20 is the oil for them, also the manufacturers have to meet increasingly tighter emissions standards!

[kscarbel2]

On 3/22/2017 at 11:32 PM, BillyT said:

Fxfymn, Its pretty obvious Ford didn't want to p...off such a loyal customer as your friend! I can't help but wonder how well a single vehicle owner would fare in the same situation! As for the problem with finding a specific grade of oil, you can approach the manager of Sam's club and explain why you think they should stock a certain oil oil brand and grade, and he will approach his or her superiors and they may approve stocking that oil! I did this in 2012 and they've stocked Castrol.Edge 0w/20 ever since! It is apparently selling, because every time I stop there are cases missing!  As for Rotella T being unsuitable for gasoline engines, It depends what engine you're talking about, and what climate you live in!  My 92 Isuzu has a solid lifter inline single overhead cam 4 banger, and I've used 15/40 rotella for almost 50000 of its 172000 miles and it shows no sign of wear! The manual recommends 10/w30, but I'm sure the internal clearances can deal with 10/w40 ! In my climate. Having said that, the modern engines tend to have tighter clearances and run a little warmer, so 0w20 is the oil for them, also the manufacturers have to meet increasingly tighter emissions standards!

Billy, the weight of the oil is a factor, to some extent (new additives now allow 0W-20). But the additives used in a diesel engine-applicable oil are far harsher than those of a gasoline engine-specific oil. Those extra cleansing additives in 15W40 for the diesel requirement will reduce the life of a gasoline engine, such as your Isuzu. Without disassembling the engine, you can't ascertain the signs of wear.

Lindsay Drydene (Drydene Oil) told me so before they sold out to Castrol, speaking of their 15W40 diesel product (Dieselall) aimed at companies who wanted one product for all.

As for the Corolla, $34 in material cost (oil and filter) to change the oil every 5,000 miles is low cost transportation. I change my 0W20 oil every 5,000 kilometers (3,107 miles).

[fxfymn]

Quote

Fxfymn, Its pretty obvious Ford didn't want to p...off such a loyal customer as your friend!

You are right; the average owner would have been SOL in my opinion. As it was they went round and round before the dealership, and Ford I presume, relented.

I had the chance to listen to a work shop done by the person who had headed Ford's lubrication engineering. He recommended the use of Rotella in any antique (60's and earlier)gasoline vehicle as it more closely matched the additives used when they were built. One of the best and most informative talks about engine lubrication I have ever heard. The best comment he had was "use as light weight of an oil that you can without it leaking or being consumed."

[BillyT]

Fxfymn, Its pretty obvious Ford didn't want to p...off such a loyal customer as your friend! I can't help but wonder how well a single vehicle owner would fare in the same situation! As for the problem with finding a specific grade of oil, you can approach the manager of Sam's club and explain why you think they should stock a certain oil oil brand and grade, and he will approach his or her superiors and they may approve stocking that oil! I did this in 2012 and they've stocked Castrol.Edge 0w/20 ever since! It is apparently selling, because every time I stop there are cases missing!  As for Rotella T being unsuitable for gasoline engines, It depends what engine you're talking about, and what climate you live in!  My 92 Isuzu has a solid lifter inline single overhead cam 4 banger, and I've used 15/40 rotella for almost 50000 of its 172000 miles and it shows no sign of wear! The manual recommends 10/w30, but I'm sure the internal clearances can deal with 10/w40 ! In my climate. Having said that, the modern engines tend to have tighter clearances and run a little warmer, so 0w20 is the oil for them, also the manufacturers have to meet increasingly tighter emissions standards!