Higher gas/diesel tax

[Red Horse]

The following is on today's Car Connection :

 

March 28, 2017

You know it, we know it, even people in Algeria know it: America's infrastructure is in a sad state.

How sad is it? America's infrastructure is in such a sad state, gravel roads are making a comeback.

That might sound like a punch line from the world's dullest, policy-wonkiest comedian, but unfortunately, it's no joke. 

A step backwards

The change in infrastructure policy has been most obvious in Omaha, Nebraska, one of America's 50 largest cities. Like other municipalities large and small, Omaha has grown in recent years, and with that growth has come the realization that roads serving once-suburban neighborhoods weren't built to code. Cracks and potholes are commonplace.

Omaha's Department of Public Works determined that it would cost some $300 million just to repair those ailing residential streets. But the city hasn't sought more funding from state or federal sources to do so. No, it's taken steps to get to the root of the problem--literally--by grinding those crumbling streets into gravel, claiming that gravel streets are far easier and cheaper to maintain.

City residents who'd been hoping that officials would come up with an outside-the-box solution aren't amused.

But so far, Omaha has stood by its decision. It has determined that the cost of maintaining roads in residential areas should be borne by the homeowners that live on those roads. (Never mind the pesky fact that residents pay taxes to ensure that roads remain up to snuff.) 

In some cases, residents have been able to raise some of the money needed for repairs, and officials have agreed to chip in a portion from the city. As you might guess, though, that strategy doesn't work well for homeowners in poorer areas of town. 

Sadly, Omaha isn't alone. Pavement-to-gravel transitions have taken place in the majority of states--27, according to a study published last year by the Transportation Research Board. The issue affects communities large and small, from coast to coast. 

So, what's to be done? 

Based on a quick poll we conducted last autumn, most of you think that new taxes are required to fix America's crumbling highways and byways. Some like the idea of a higher federal gas tax (which, after all, it hasn't been raised since 1993). Others think that a pay-as-you go tax for motorists would be the most equitable. 

Whatever the case, a plan is needed soon, and it ain't going to be cheap. President Trump knows that, and he's said that he's planning to ask Congress for $1 trillion to repair the U.S. infrastructure. 

A couple of weeks ago, we would've thought his odds on getting such a bill passed were pretty good. Trump, of course, is a Republican, and enjoys fairly healthy support among members of his own party. Furthermore, infrastructure spending is popular with Democrats, so there'd some opportunities for bipartisan cooperation. 

In the wake of last week's healthcare debacle, though, Trump clearly exacerbated some tensions within the GOP. Making the pitch for a 13-figure ask--especially an ask for a project likely to be unpopular with Republicans, who'd prefer to slash spending--will now be very, very tricky. 

For people in Omaha and elsewhere, the timing is crucial. 

Tags:

congressDonald TrumpInfrastructureroadNews

 

I've often wondered, if there was a time to raise the gas tax, raise it now.  We've forgotten 3 buck plus a gallon gas, so if we could tolerate say another nickel, now is the time.  Perhaps the tax could be pegged to a given price per gallon -gas or diesel- and as the posted price of fuel went up the tax could be reduced.

Bottom line the cost of repair will be huge-one way or another we will pay.  IMO pegging it to fuel is fairest/  the more you use the road the more you pay.  Want to buy a Mustang or Camaro V-8 vs a Focus or a Cruz?-fine-you pay more. Want a 600 HP Pete vs a 13 liter?  Again you pay  And I know- 600 HP when driven correctly might give you MPG close to the 13L-but how many guys are content to "drive accordingly."

Just food for thought

No such thing as a free lunch.

 

[BillyT]

Astute observations Red Horse!The implications of 19th century roads in 21 century America are many and varied! I've never seen paved roads replaced by gravel! Normally paved roads are repaired or replaced,and unpaved roads are either repaired or paved! Our infrastructure nationwide is in dangerously poor condition bridges and dams in particular! The repair or replacement of these structures could create thousands of jobs if properly handled! Many have suggested a WPA type system like during the great depression. Looks good on paper, but if you talk to the old timers who were there they will tell you it was an inefficient and corrupt system! The guys who were part of it lived in rudimentary barracks and most of their small wage was sent home to their families to pay for basic necessities! Much better than being homeless and starving , but it wouldn't work today without some modifications! I have to take " the boss" shopping but I'll return whether you like it or not later😁

[41chevy]

As long as there is a  included charge or road tax for Electric and other alternate fuel vehicles. Our gas taxes in Virginia, New York and 15 other state also pay for the public EV charging stations. Lets be fair about the tax.

Edited March 29, 2017 by 41chevy

[Dirtymilkman]

The higher cafe ratings are causing this. Electric cars should pay tax based on miles. The fuel tax is the only fair tax we have. Truckers pay the most, but we also use the roads the most and do the most damage. I'd pay a dime more a gallon IF all of it went directly to road infrastructure. 

[1958 F.W.D.]

I am already paying the highest per-gallon taxes in the country (Pa.) 

NO. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Most truckers are getting a bargain with fuel tax- The real cost of providing and maintaining roads is around $.05 per ton mile, or $2 a mile for a loaded 80,000 pound combination.

[gearhead204]

1 hour ago, 1958 F.W.D. said:

I am already paying the highest per-gallon taxes in the country (Pa.) 

NO. 

its about time some one caught up to Washington state !

[RowdyRebel]

When they spend the money for its intended purpose, there is more than enough to maintain the roads. Problem is, the highway fund gets mixed into the general fund and pennies on the dollar actually make it to the roads. So, now you want to raise taxes? Still haven't fixed the problem. They'll take that extra revenue and build bike paths or fund schools or police & fire stations, or any of the other areas they cry about when voters have had enough and DEMAND highway fund dollars be spent on the roads. Hell, Illinois just passed a Constitutional Amendment last November with nearly 80% of the vote saying just that...no more diverting highway funds away from our roads. Missouri passed a similar measure a decade or so ago, and their roads quickly went from some of the worst to among the best. Why? Because the money that was collected for the roads was being used on the roads. The money is there. We don't need higher taxes. Just use the money as it was intended. If you can't do that, don't come crying to me saying you need even more money "for the roads".

[fxfymn]

Quote

Our gas taxes in Virginia, New York and 15 other state also pay for the public EV charging stations. Lets be fair about the tax.

EV's pay a surcharge in VA at registration to help make up for the lack of fuel taxes.

[41chevy]

5 hours ago, fxfymn said:

EV's pay a surcharge in VA at registration to help make up for the lack of fuel taxes.

Yes 10  states out of 50 do that, Most pay $100 to $200 surcharges on initial registration and a small fee per renewal.   But the public EV charging stations are still funded by the states gas taxes. Add that to those 10 states and federal tax incentives, highly discounted electric vehicle (EV) charging rates for home based charging stations paid out of the fuel taxes, HUT and IFTA add to the give back monies for EV / Alternate fuel vehicle ownership.T he surcharges general are voided by incentives, discounts, tax deductions and freebee's.

Edited March 29, 2017 by 41chevy

[Freightrain]

The guy I'm building the Willys for, lives on a gravel/mud path.  The township will NOT pave it.  His house is NOT a shack, he pays a LOT of taxes on his 11 acres.  The township doesn't have the money to pave it, so they just rake it and dump pea gravel on it every few weeks.   Doesn't seem cheaper to maintain to me?  If they just chip/seal it that would likely keep it from washing away and turning into a cow path.  

I dread having to travel that road twice a week.  The only place that makes money is the spray wash.  I spray my truck off every time I leave because I don't want it to look like I went offroading.  When it's wet it's a rutted mess, when it's dry it's a rutted dustbowl.  He actually is looking at buying a building IN town to park his hot rods so he doesn't have to have them washed/cleaned after every trip out.

 

Oh, remember, the Lottery was going to help fund schools.  Ya, right.  That never happened either.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Freightrain

[RowdyRebel]

4 hours ago, Freightrain said:

 I spray my truck off every time I leave because I don't want it to look like I went offroading.

Haha! I'm just the opposite. If I wash my truck, I'm looking for the first mudhole I can find to tear through because I can't stand the way 4x4 trucks with decent sized mud or all-terrain tires look when all clean & polished up. A truck was meant to be used...get a little dirt up on it...put a dent or two in the bed. 4x4? Let them tires fling a little mud up on the fenders. 

 

I'd be embarrassed to be seen driving around a spit-polished, clean-as-a-whistle 4x4 pickup truck without a dent or ding on it to be found. Those are "poser" trucks...mall-crawlers, if you will. That's also why I can't see myself buying a new pickup...they sell for nearly twice what I paid for the Mack, and that's just too much to spend on something that I'm going to beat on trying to find its breaking point while I'm taking care of some chores out at the farm.

[Freightrain]

Well, it's just a lowly 2wd.  No 4x4 poser here.  Even the work trucks, I pay out of pocket to put them through the car wash as I can't stand to be in crusty vehicles.  I have a bit more pride in myself then most here at work.   The first new truck we had here in 1986, I used to stop at the spray wash at least once a week and clean it.  I was proud of that new stake bed and I wanted it shiny red.  There hasn't been an employee YET that has ever spent a dollar on cleaning a company vehicle since.  Even the VP, we have to pay a local hand wash place to detail his company car.  Pathetic in my eyes.

[Dirtymilkman]

On 3/30/2017 at 9:27 AM, Freightrain said:

The guy I'm building the Willys for, lives on a gravel/mud path.  The township will NOT pave it.  His house is NOT a shack, he pays a LOT of taxes on his 11 acres.  The township doesn't have the money to pave it, so they just rake it and dump pea gravel on it every few weeks.   Doesn't seem cheaper to maintain to me?  If they just chip/seal it that would likely keep it from washing away and turning into a cow path.  

I dread having to travel that road twice a week.  The only place that makes money is the spray wash.  I spray my truck off every time I leave because I don't want it to look like I went offroading.  When it's wet it's a rutted mess, when it's dry it's a rutted dustbowl.  He actually is looking at buying a building IN town to park his hot rods so he doesn't have to have them washed/cleaned after every trip out.

 

Oh, remember, the Lottery was going to help fund schools.  Ya, right.  That never happened either.

This guy should've thought about that before he bought a house on that road. 

[Freightrain]

He built it all.   Big house, big shop and even a large dirt bike oval.  For the dirt bike guy that has everything LOL!!     He calls it "top of the world" because it is the highest place in town.  Very cool, great view on top of the hill, but the road to it SUCKS!!  He's complained, but to no avail.  He has even threatened to pave it himself!!!

Winter shot.  House in front, banked track to the right.  Shop is behind the house, can't see it very well.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Freightrain

[6368]

On 3/28/2017 at 11:59 PM, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Most truckers are getting a bargain with fuel tax- The real cost of providing and maintaining roads is around $.05 per ton mile, or $2 a mile for a loaded 80,000 pound combination.

Please provide some reference for these numbers.  I did a quick google and found this: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11134.pdf.  It claims similar numbers ( .055) for "marginal social costs";however, a little further reading reveals that very little of that is for highway maintenance.  I think if we are talking about damage trucks do to roads, the most relevant part of the report is on page 23. It says:

" Marginal public infrastructure costs—the second cost item in table 3— relate to public highway spending attributable to miles driven by freight trucks (i.e., pavement preservation costs per million ton-miles). We estimate from recent FHWA data that trucks imposed an average marginal cost to pavement of $7,000 per million ton-miles.37 We also estimate from FHWA data that pavement preservation costs borne by all levels of government attributable to all single-unit and combination trucks (excluding pickup trucks) averaged about 6.1 cents per vehicle miles traveled (VMT).38 The cost per ton-mile would increase with truck weight and decrease with the number of axles. The costs also varied by location (urban or rural), type of road surface, temperature, and other factors. When we compared single-unit and combination trucks using DOT data, we found that marginal revenues exceeded the marginal infrastructure costs by 4.8 cents per VMT for single-unit trucks and by 3.5 cents per VMT for combination trucks, meaning that both types of trucks pay more than their share of pavement preservation costs."   I added the bold.  This of course does not talk about the cost of building the road in the first place just how much damage trucks do and what they pay.

[david wild]

More union BS, she is out to lunch

[RowdyRebel]

A woman walking down the road in heels exerts more psi on the road than a fully loaded 18 wheeler...figuring a 3" contact patch on an 11" wide tire, the steer tires @ 12K on the axle work out to around 182 psi to the road. Drive & trailer tires are less...129 psi.

 

Compare that to a 120# woman wearing heels that are less than 1/4" square...every time her heel hits the ground, she's exerting more pressure on that spot than the semi that just rolled through. The difference? The truck is contributing a significant amount ($15K+/year) into the highway fund...that woman ain't.

[mowerman]

heard thats what most californians were telling jerry brown....make better use of the funds you already have.....was pretty impressed to hear that out of them.....guess everyone is getting tired of them hotshots throwing it around,,,and then coming to the public for more when then run out....amazing...bob

[mowerman]

i paid 20,000 last year income tax   got 350 back.and 150 of that goes to preparer...you shitten me....what a racket these guys got...bob

[BillyT]

Astute observations Red Horse!The implications of 19th century roads in 21 century America are many and varied! I've never seen paved roads replaced by gravel! Normally paved roads are repaired or replaced,and unpaved roads are either repaired or paved! Our infrastructure nationwide is in dangerously poor condition bridges and dams in particular! The repair or replacement of these structures could create thousands of jobs if properly handled! Many have suggested a WPA type system like during the great depression. Looks good on paper, but if you talk to the old timers who were there they will tell you it was an inefficient and corrupt system! The guys who were part of it lived in rudimentary barracks and most of their small wage was sent home to their families to pay for basic necessities! Much better than being homeless and starving , but it wouldn't work today without some modifications! I have to take " the boss" shopping but I'll return whether you like it or not later😁

[other dog]

On 4/1/2017 at 10:08 AM, david wild said:

More union BS, she is out to lunch

.

[mowerman]

You know this piss hole we call the Great America has been run down for quite some time it's a beautiful country too many people with their hands in the till makes it ugly hopefully my boy mr. Trump both straight and let it all out fingers crossed fellows......bob

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

[mowerman]

Damn auto spell isn't it wonderful let's try again hopefully this country will be great again like it was while ago get people together again and not so segregated do your share and get rewarded no freebies.....bob

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk