On this day in history - The 'Doolittle Raid'

[kscarbel2]

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[BC Mack]

https://www.eaa.org/en/airventure/eaa-airventure-news-and-multimedia/eaa-airventure-news/eaa-airventure-oshkosh/04-17-2017-commemoration-of-doolittle-raid-75th-anniversary-at-airventure-2017

should be interesting to see 16 B25's mass take-off..!!!!... I assume it will be a little more legally spaced out than the last time this was done during the filming of Catch 22.....

probably one of the best flying scenes ever filmed, had to be done in Mexico as the FAA would not sanction it, Frank Tallman gathered together nearly 25 B25's at his base near Los Angeles in the late 60's and these airplanes that would have been scrapped now form the nucleus of today's restored B25's seen at airshows today. 

BC Mack

 

[kscarbel2]

Solely because of the Doolittle raid, the B-25 became relatively well known. But otherwise, the B-17 hogged the limelight (the problematic B-24 less well known) and the other twin-engined bombers are forgotten.

But in fact, the twin-engined bombers including the Douglas A-20 Havoc, Martin B-26 Marauder and North American B-25 Mitchell played a very active part in the war.

The Douglas A20 evolved into the highly successful A26 Invader which was used up to Vietnam.

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[Red Horse]

2 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

Solely because of the Doolittle raid, the B-25 became relatively well known. But otherwise, the B-17 hogged the limelight (the problematic B-24 less well known) and the other twin-engined bombers are forgotten.

But in fact, the twin-engined bombers including the Douglas A-20 Havoc, Martin B-26 Marauder and North American B-25 Mitchell played a very active part in the war.

The Douglas A20 evolved into the highly successful A26 Invader which was used up to Vietnam.

Interesting to note the use of the A26 in Vietnam.  And here we are 45 yrs later and propellers are again getting attention as a cost effective ground support means.

[41chevy]

2 hours ago, Red Horse said:

Interesting to note the use of the A26 in Vietnam.  And here we are 45 yrs later and propellers are again getting attention as a cost effective ground support means.

We had A-26K Counter Invaders AC-119 and P -61 Black Widows  at Utapao Air Base when I was over seas, Got a few dozen photos of them all.  They were mostly in RVNAF, RTAF and Laosian markings even though we flew them.

[kscarbel2]

P-61s are extremely rare. I only know of three, at the Smithsonian, the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum in Reading (PA), and the Beijing Aviation University museum.

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[DailyDiesel]

My grandfather was an engineer on B-25 in the pacific during WWII so this plane will always hold a special place in my heart. This past summer I was able to see one in person for the first time at a local air show. It certainly was not as large as I imagined and simply awe inspiring that a crew of six crammed into them and flew across the ocean while dropping bombs and dodging fighters. I don't know how they did it!

Amazing that 16 could be assembled in location.

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by DailyDiesel

[BC Mack]

5 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

P-61s are extremely rare. I only know of three, at the Smithsonian, the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum in Reading (PA), and the Beijing Aviation University museum.

I am very sure NO P61's were in usaf service much after WW2, early 50's at best... other than these 3 and a couple of wrecks in the Aleutians none survived the scrapper long.

the last flyers were fire bombers in CA, one was actually an F-15 Reporter, they were comically called "Pregnant Widows" by the aircrew due to the large underslung retardent tank. The F15 was the last to fly crashing at Hollister in 1968, parts from this and the owners stock eventually made it to Reading PA to help in the rebuild of the Mid Atlantic P61C which is being slowly restored to flying condition.

41 Chevy... would like to see those photos, I think the P61's could be OV-10 Bronco's which are very similar looking with twin boom tail arrangement. Also for you, a privately owned A26K COIN Invader is just finishing up a long term restoration to stock condition, wing hard points and tip tanks etc, and should fly again in the next few weeks near Dallas TX... they've named it "Special Kay"...

BC Mack

[mrsmackpaul]

They were some brave men back then. I don't know they achieved a whole lot but would no doubt boosted morale back back in the US after Pearl Harbor.

I saw a documentary the other day, can't remember where. Anyway, it was about the battle of Okinawa. The figures were staggering, almost impossible to believe. The amount of people that died in a very short period of time and most committed suicide rather surrender, whole families jumping off cliffs, just mind boggling.

The US troops would have had mental scars for the rest of their lives that experienced that, something I hope no one will ever have to go thru again.

Sorry have taken this off topic a bit.

Paul 

[GA_Dave]

On 4/19/2017 at 5:48 AM, kscarbel2 said:

P-61s are extremely rare. I only know of three, at the Smithsonian, the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum in Reading (PA), and the Beijing Aviation University museum.

There is also one at the US Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio.

[BC Mack]

14 hours ago, GA_Dave said:

There is also one at the US Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio.

http://napoleon130.tripod.com/p61blackwidow/id21.html

correct... four

BC Mack

[david wild]

I feel lucky and proud to have moved 2 B25s, the one from Lake Murray SC. to the Museum in Birmingham AL. as seen on Mega Movers and recently one from Rantoul Air Museum in IL. to the Birmingham AL. Museum. 

[41chevy]

On 4/19/2017 at 0:14 PM, BC Mack said:

I am very sure NO P61's were in usaf service much after WW2, early 50's at best... other than these 3 and a couple of wrecks in the Aleutians none survived the scrapper long.

the last flyers were fire bombers in CA, one was actually an F-15 Reporter, they were comically called "Pregnant Widows" by the aircrew due to the large underslung retardent tank. The F15 was the last to fly crashing at Hollister in 1968, parts from this and the owners stock eventually made it to Reading PA to help in the rebuild of the Mid Atlantic P61C which is being slowly restored to flying condition.

41 Chevy... would like to see those photos, I think the P61's could be OV-10 Bronco's which are very similar looking with twin boom tail arrangement. Also for you, a privately owned A26K COIN Invader is just finishing up a long term restoration to stock condition, wing hard points and tip tanks etc, and should fly again in the next few weeks near Dallas TX... they've named it "Special Kay"...

BC Mack

Please bear with me. I have to dig out my Vietnam photos, as I  put them away in 1972 before we moved to Israel and have not opened the box since. The "P-61" may have been a Nord Noratlas. The Broncos were distinct because we had them a attack FAC units it Royal Thai markings There were converted to gun ships C-119 and the Nords were converted by Thailand for ground attack.

[kscarbel2]

On 4/19/2017 at 7:02 AM, kscarbel2 said:

Solely because of the Doolittle raid, the B-25 became relatively well known. But otherwise, the B-17 hogged the limelight (the problematic B-24 less well known) and the other twin-engined bombers are forgotten.

But in fact, the twin-engined bombers including the Douglas A-20 Havoc, Martin B-26 Marauder and North American B-25 Mitchell played a very active part in the war.

The Douglas A20 evolved into the highly successful A26 Invader which was used up to Vietnam.

I was mistaken to not mention two important twin-engined bombers manufactured by the once famous Glenn L. Martin Company. He was one of the pioneers of American aviation.

The two aircraft being the A22 Maryland and A23 Baltimore. Though initially targeted at the U.S. Army Air Corps, they were generally flown by British and Free French forces.

They had the "A" designation (Attack) as they were expected, like the later Douglas A26 Invader, to drop their bombs at low altitudes.

Though the B-25G and B-25H were specifically designed for low level attacks, they still carried the high altitude "B" (bomber) designation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Maryland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Baltimore

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_B-25_Mitchell#Use_as_a_gunship

From 1929, Martin produced aircraft at a massive Middle River, Maryland facility.

Another worthy mention is the Douglas DC-2 based B18, which was an absolutely horrible replacement for the Martin B-10 bomber (Martin was really a big name in Air Corps aviation). The B-10 was the Army's first all-metal monoplane bomber......which was a big deal at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_B-18_Bolo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_B-10

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[41chevy]

By 1940,the B-18 considered to be underpowered,with poor defensive armament and too small a bomb load. Most all were destroyed during the attacks on Pearl Harbor and the Philippines in December 1941.

In 1942, the B-18 survivors were relegated to antisubmarine, transport duty, and training as far as late 1943. A B-18 was one of the first American aircraft to sink a German U-boat in North America. The Bolo sunk U-654 on 22 August 1942 in the Caribbean. Two or three were used a cargo planes til the end of WWII.

[BC Mack]

21 hours ago, 41chevy said:

Please bear with me. I have to dig out my Vietnam photos, as I  put them away in 1972 before we moved to Israel and have not opened the box since. The "P-61" may have been a Nord Noratlas. The Broncos were distinct because we had them a attack FAC units it Royal Thai markings There were converted to gun ships C-119 and the Nords were converted by Thailand for ground attack.

No hurry... I've also got 50 year old boxes of airplane photos, somewhere...!!

My interest in your recollection stems from my interest in post war civil aviation history but the conflict in SE Asia blurred civil and military operations... the last Boeing 307 Stratoliners were operated under French registration for the ICCS during the "peace talks"... and of course Air America became one of the worlds largest 'airlines'... Continental Air Services, Bird Aviation, PA&E... and on....

too many 'airplane' stories came out of that conflict, it all interests me but makes me shake my head sometimes... the A26K per usaf serial practice when they were re-manufactured in 64 should have a prefix letter of 'B' but Thailand wouldn't then allow 'bombers' so it was re-classified 'A'... and don't forget that Johnson (IIRC) misquoted the Blackbird as SR-71, protocol dictates it as a 'S' for supersonic and prefix letter 'R' for reconnaissance... and was supposed to be RS-71 just like the RC-135 is now..

I think the French Nords left when they were replaced by 'loaned' C119's... then the French left..!!!

I could go on, but it is a Mack forum... LOL

BC Mack

[41chevy]

On 4/25/2017 at 8:45 AM, BC Mack said:

No hurry... I've also got 50 year old boxes of airplane photos, somewhere...!!

My interest in your recollection stems from my interest in post war civil aviation history but the conflict in SE Asia blurred civil and military operations... the last Boeing 307 Stratoliners were operated under French registration for the ICCS during the "peace talks"... and of course Air America became one of the worlds largest 'airlines'... Continental Air Services, Bird Aviation, PA&E... and on....

too many 'airplane' stories came out of that conflict, it all interests me but makes me shake my head sometimes... the A26K per usaf serial practice when they were re-manufactured in 64 should have a prefix letter of 'B' but Thailand wouldn't then allow 'bombers' so it was re-classified 'A'... and don't forget that Johnson (IIRC) misquoted the Blackbird as SR-71, protocol dictates it as a 'S' for supersonic and prefix letter 'R' for reconnaissance... and was supposed to be RS-71 just like the RC-135 is now..

I think the French Nords left when they were replaced by 'loaned' C119's... then the French left..!!!

I could go on, but it is a Mack forum... LOL

BC Mack

There was at least one Nord were modified like the B-25H but with twin 57mm recoil-less rifles under the pilots and one with 6 30 cals in the cargo compartment rear hatch area.Kind of the ultimate tail stinger. There was a lot of Aircraft from NATO,Korean conflict and things the French abandoned.

Growing up with the entire family either working at Grummans or Republic on Long Island aircraft were always a big part of my life My first big memory when I was about 3 or 4 is at a Grumman family picnic seeing the Blue Angles flying F8 Bearcats. My fathers brother flew B-50 and B-52's from Korea to Vietnam, mothers brother flew B-24 and was lost over Polesti. Mom worked at Grummans during WWII and her sister was a shuttle pilot from the east Coast to England flying B-17''s.   

You can always PM me and we can set up a chat session on aircraft. I'm into late WWII Jets to the last F-14 with the century series aircraft in my top ten.

[kscarbel2]

BC, the C-130 Hercules always got all the press. Few remember the Fairchild C119 "Flying Boxcar" and the C130-like Fairchild C123 "Provider".

Paul, the F8 was a real "hot rod", alike the Hawker "Sea Fury".

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[41chevy]

We also had two versions of AC-119K units Shadows had 4 mini guns and flare dispenser and Stingers had a pair Vulcam 20mm rotary cannons and 4 mini guns, flare dispenser  plus infra red or DayLite illumination and later Doppler radar for night on the Ho Highway.

They were made after the AC130 gunships and replaced the AC47 Spooky's

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by 41chevy

[BC Mack]

the C119's were two variants... 26 were AC-119G 'Shadow' and 26 AC-119K 'Stinger'

there were only two AC/NC-123K 'Black Spot', development aircraft, de-modified and sent to RTAF

not as well well known was the Navy AP-2H & OP-2E 'Neptune'... teamed up as gunship and sensor droppers.

as said, the original C47 Spooky and AC-130's got all the publicity and many have never heard of the multiple other types, large and small, that were in some cases simply field modified as was the initial B-25 with 'cheek pack' guns...

BC Mack