GM ceases Venezuela operations after government seizes plant

[Underdog]

9 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

From the non-partisan CBO: http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/114th-congress-2015-2016/workingpaper/50049-Freight_Transport_Working_Paper-2.pdf
Shows trucking costs taxpayers around 2 to 5 cents per ton/mile. Is your truck paying anywhere near that?

So then suppose truckers pay their "fair share" of road use costs. Then the price of goods increases to cover those increased transportation costs. Then workers (consumers) demand higher wages as a result of increased cost of living expenses. This in turn raises the cost of road building. So then the politicians are still trying to get in my pocket. The cycle never ends. Try making do with what you have, much like we all try to do in our personal lives. There's lots of things I'd like to do or buy, but I don't because I can't afford it. It's always easy to spend when it's someone else's money. Politicians never seem to account for the loss in revenue when critical mass is reached and consumers can no longer afford the services provided, or choose not to participate. So those that remain are expected to pay more. And more. And more.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

No, if trucking paid the real costs of their road use rates would rise and more freight would shift to rail. Taxpayers would be relieved of the responsibility of maintaining roads for long haul trucks and the resulting savings would be a boost to the economy. Given the driver shortage that plagues the trucking industry, there would be little impact on unemployment rates as most truck drivers leave the industry during their first year of employment.

[Underdog]

Again, thinking like a politician, not based in reality. I have been paying taxes for nearly 35 years, and have not yet ever, even once, been "relieved of my responsibility". The bureaucrats will always find something else on which to spend my money. And the driver shortage is more or less a pay shortage, new drivers find out fast they are not being compensated adequately for the demands of the job. "It's too hard!" It's Boring!" "I don't wanna be away from home!" I stay in the truck because I can't make $100,000 hanging around home punching a clock. But what are the alternatives? Where are these former steering wheel holders going to work? Back to Walmart DC unloading TRUCKS. because last I checked, not too many stores or DC's have rail sidings.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Being a civil servant I see the numbers- For example we have a shortline railroad, the Minnesota Prairie Line, that parallels a 2 lane state highway for about 100 miles. The rail line was bought up by the counties along the line a couple decades ago to keep it from being abandoned. We've invested a few million dollars of public funds in rehabilitating that line and as a result they're able to run a train twice a week to serve the online elevators and other customers. Those are small trains, but the hundred or so cars a week they're moving is taking 400 tractor trailer rigs off the neighboring highway. This reduction in highway wear means we can put off a much more expensive rebuild of the neighboring highway.

[Dirtymilkman]

8 minutes ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Being a civil servant I see the numbers- For example we have a shortline railroad, the Minnesota Prairie Line, that parallels a 2 lane state highway for about 100 miles. The rail line was bought up by the counties along the line a couple decades ago to keep it from being abandoned. We've invested a few million dollars of public funds in rehabilitating that line and as a result they're able to run a train twice a week to serve the online elevators and other customers. Those are small trains, but the hundred or so cars a week they're moving is taking 400 tractor trailer rigs off the neighboring highway. This reduction in highway wear means we can put off a much more expensive rebuild of the neighboring highway.

Now that quote sounds like a politician. In a perfect world, everything would also be produced locally, a man could make a living milking 20 cows and farming 80 acres, the wife could raise the kids and each family would only need one vehicle. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

If you want to look at it on a bigger scale, the railroads are running 25 or so unit intermodal trains a day on the corridor between the California ports and the Chicago area. That's 5000 trucks a day they're taking off the highways and 10,000 trucks when you figure the often empty backhauls. If the railroads discontinued that service we'd have to pay billions to add lanes to I-80, I-70 etc.. On a local scale, we've got a million bushel plus elevator near me that typically loads a unit shuttle train once a week and ships it out. Each train is taking around a thousand truck trips a week off our 2 lane highway that is already at capacity- 4 laning that highway to connect with I-90 and I-94 would likely cost us taxpayers a billion dollars, and we thank BNSF for saving us that billion dollars.

[Dirtymilkman]

1 minute ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Each train is taking around a thousand truck trips a week off our 2 lane highway that is already at capacity- 4 laning that highway to connect with I-90 and I-94 would likely cost us taxpayers a billion dollars, and we thank BNSF for saving us that billion dollars.

Guess we could build a separate road for all the cars that cause the congestion. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

1 minute ago, Dirtymilkman said:

Now that quote sounds like a politician. In a perfect world, everything would also be produced locally, a man could make a living milking 20 cows and farming 80 acres, the wife could raise the kids and each family would only need one vehicle. 

I'm old enough to remember when the typical milk truck was a single axle straight truck, but not old enough to remember cans. I saw that straight truck replaced with a tandem, then pusher axles. I was at the legislative hearings when they gave the straight trucks 5 more feet of length so they could bridge a few thousand more pounds, and since then they've authorized permits so you can operate 91,000 pound straight trucks like your Titan. All that has done is enabled megadairies who run the family farmers out of business... Is that progress?

[TeamsterGrrrl]

1 minute ago, Dirtymilkman said:

Guess we could build a separate road for all the cars that cause the congestion. 

The trucks contribute more to the congestion- The highway engineers tell us that the congestion on our highway 23 in southwest MN is largely caused by the 1000+ trucks that use that route per day, not the 5000 or so total vehicle count.

[Dirtymilkman]

1 minute ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

I'm old enough to remember when the typical milk truck was a single axle straight truck, but not old enough to remember cans. I saw that straight truck replaced with a tandem, then pusher axles. I was at the legislative hearings when they gave the straight trucks 5 more feet of length so they could bridge a few thousand more pounds, and since then they've authorized permits so you can operate 91,000 pound straight trucks like your Titan. All that has done is enabled megadairies who run the family farmers out of business... Is that progress?

Actually it allows me to run farther out to pick up more small dairies. The big dairies are all using tankers because their yards are set up for it. The smaller farms in very rural areas are hard to access with a 42 footer. Straight trucks are basically intended for just that reason. Otherwise tankers are more economical. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Takes damn near a thousand dairy cows to fill up your Titan tanker every day, and even 200 cows is considered a big family dairy farm. 45 foot long straight trucks have no advantage over tractor-trailer rigs in maneuverability, their main advantage is traction as with the auxiliary axles lifted they can put more weight on the drive axles.

[david wild]

Liberalism is a disease and she is infected bad, don't think she grew up on a farm, might have better attitude, better not she had joined a union she might have been sweet but now just a old cranky mad person with a warped view of the world.

[Dirtymilkman]

39 minutes ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Takes damn near a thousand dairy cows to fill up your Titan tanker every day, and even 200 cows is considered a big family dairy farm. 45 foot long straight trucks have no advantage over tractor-trailer rigs in maneuverability, their main advantage is traction as with the auxiliary axles lifted they can put more weight on the drive axles.

Straight trucks have a HUGE advantage in maneuverability. Narrow roads plus narrow driveways make it not possible with a tanker. Believe me, I own both. This is real world experience, not a study. If I could get by without straight trucks I wouldn't have any. It takes approximately 800 cows to fill a truck. And my one straight truck picks up 14 farms to fill it. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

In your application a straight truck works better, in other applications tractor-trailers work better. As for the stats, good to see you're serving some real family farmers.

[RowdyRebel]

$0.05/mile federal fuel tax. $0.07/mile state fuel tax here in this state.  Another $0.04/mile in excise tax for my tires...and that doesn't include the trailer (which isn't mine).  $0.007/mile for the HVUT. Truck registration adds another $0.03/mile...and again, doesn't include the trailer. That's already $0.20/mile, again, not including the trailers I pull which add another $0.03/mile for the tires. Add in the $0.02/mile excise tax for the first million miles of a new truck, and roughly the same again for the trailers. Yeah, trailers cost less than trucks, but fleets usually have more trailers than power units.  So we're up to $0.27/mile just to cover the road use taxes.

And as far as the CBO is concerned, when they start making ACCURATE predictions, I might start giving a crap what they think. Until then, they are just another alleged "non-political" entity pushing the left-wing's agenda, because tax cuts are viewed as "taking money from government" despite the fact that allowing the people to keep THEIR money boosts the taxed economic activity thereby INCREASING revenues collected by the government. Likewise, tax rate increases always wrongly assume an increase in money seized by the government despite the adverse affect it has on the taxed economic activity, leading to an overall decline in revenues collected. In other words, the more profitable an activity is for a person to engage in, the more they will do it, thereby increasing the tax base.  When an activity is not as profitable for a person to do, that person is less likely to do it. If the person does not participate in the taxed activity, they don't pay the tax.

Damn...started this reply last night before the wife got home & now I have a ton more to read & reply to...

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Rowdy, I trust the CBO's facts a lot more than I trust your "facts". If we go back to the $.05/ton/mile as the real cost of trucking to our road infrastructure, even if you're running half empty you'd be costing us over a buck a mile. Not trying to blame you personally, your taxes sound high compared to some of the fleets that use every trick in the book to keep from paying taxes- For example they're often paying no more that you are in registration and highway use tax fees, but some of them are double shifting a truck and running 200,000 and more miles a year! On the other hand, I've talked to farmers who are paying $3k a year or so in registration and HUT alone, despite the fact that they're only running their truck 10k miles a year between their farm and the elevator... These folks are clearing playing their way and then some! 

This is why we need fairness in road taxes, and the only way to do that is with a ton/mile taxation system for vehicles that are putting on a lot of miles, electric cars included.

[RowdyRebel]

On 4/23/2017 at 8:17 PM, TeamsterGrrrl said:

No, if trucking paid the real costs of their road use rates would rise and more freight would shift to rail. Taxpayers would be relieved of the responsibility of maintaining roads for long haul trucks and the resulting savings would be a boost to the economy. Given the driver shortage that plagues the trucking industry, there would be little impact on unemployment rates as most truck drivers leave the industry during their first year of employment.

Relieved of the responsibility for maintaining the roads, but take on the responsibility for maintaining the rails?

On 4/23/2017 at 9:42 PM, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Being a civil servant I see the numbers- For example we have a shortline railroad, the Minnesota Prairie Line, that parallels a 2 lane state highway for about 100 miles. The rail line was bought up by the counties along the line a couple decades ago to keep it from being abandoned. We've invested a few million dollars of public funds in rehabilitating that line and as a result they're able to run a train twice a week to serve the online elevators and other customers. Those are small trains, but the hundred or so cars a week they're moving is taking 400 tractor trailer rigs off the neighboring highway. This reduction in highway wear means we can put off a much more expensive rebuild of the neighboring highway.

100 mile stretch X 400 T/T's per week X 52 weeks per year = $561,600 in annual taxes those 400 trucks would have been paying. How much is the railroad contributing to reimburse the counties the "few million dollars" they spent buying and rehabilitating the tracks?  Over several years, it adds up. 

Around here, they built some levees 70 years ago, knowing they had a 50 year life span...so they were collecting taxes to maintain and eventually replace them. Problem is, here it is 70 years later and there's no money to replace the damn levees. Why? Because politicians spent the money elsewhere. The same situation exists with the roads. The money has been collected, but rather than making sure it is set aside to repair or replace the roads, it has been spent elsewhere leaving the fund dry as a bone.  So now things are critical, and they want MORE money, but with no guarantee they will manage that money any better this time than they have in the past...and no repercussions for those responsible for the wasteful spending of the monies already collected. When politicians who wasted my tax dollars are locked up, or preferably tarred & feathered (as it is less expensive and more of a deterrent), then I MIGHT consider temporarily paying higher taxes to "solve the problem". Until then, make due with what you're already collecting or get the f*ck out of the way for someone who can.

[david wild]

Government can fix nothing, all the losers that could not make it in the real world go get a plushy government job where they can watch porn and do nothing all day with out the fear of losing their job.

[RowdyRebel]

10 minutes ago, david wild said:

Government can fix nothing, all the losers that could not make it in the real world go get a plushy government job where they can watch porn and do nothing all day with out the fear of losing their job.

 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Rowdy, the tracks are publicly owned and the railroad operator pays to use them, besides the saved wear on the parallel roads.

David, sometimes I wonder if its the opposite... I've done the numbers on owning my own truck before and it was always less profitable than being a company driver. Sometimes makes me wonder if some guys become owner-operators because their porn watching, drug use, boozing, fighting, and other bad behaviors keep them from getting a legit job in government or for a trucking company?

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Sounds like the republican legislator in the next district over- He decries the government, but other than the short job as a welder that he quickly got fired from, his entire career has been as a public employee!

[RowdyRebel]

 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

So you're taking political advice from a senile old man?

[TS7]

Anyone who owns one truck or a lot of trucks knows it costs a lot to keep a truck running and on the road. So someone who does not own a truck cannot understand what it takes.

[TS7]

Who Bill Clinton.