Why has Mack Abandoned the Medium Truck Market?

[Jamaican Bulldog]

I have often wondered why Mack has abandoned the medium truck market from class 5 to 7. I know they have the MHD Granite but I see so many IH, Isuzu, Hino, Mitsubishi, UD, Freightliner, KW, peterbuilts ( including the COE DAF derived European styles) and even Berings up in the NY and NE area, but no medium Mack since the Freedom I think. Missed opportunity? Does Volvo have medium trucks that they could sell here or have they decided the U.S market is too crowded or competitive? 

A while back I read once that Mack could be getting a rebadged UD because there was a connection between Nissan/Renault/Volvo. Is that true?

Did the sales performance of the Midliner and Freedom models dampen the prospects of staying in the market?

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by Jamaican Bulldog

[james j neiweem]

Another example of Volvo keeping Mack on a short leash.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

The story I've heard is that when Volvo bought out GM heavy trucks, there was a non-compete clause in the deal whereby Volvo agreed not to sell a medium truck that would compete with GM's. Thus the Volvo FL cabovers were dropped in the American market about 20 years ago, and the Renault/Mack mediums were dropped shortly after Volvo bought Renault and Mack about 15 years ago.

[Jamaican Bulldog]

Interesting explanation. I wonder if there is sunset clause in that deal for 25+ years.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Well, if you really want a Mack medium truck... The Mack/Renault medium shared it's cab with DAF, and Volvo and Magirus back in the 80s. That alliance is still sharing a cab, though Magaris has been absorbed into IVECO and dropped out while Paccar has bought DAF. Paccar owns KW and Pete too, which means you can buy the current Mack/Renault medium cabover with a Cummins engine at your friendly local KW or Pete dealer. Who'da thunk it?

BTW, the Leyland T45 medium finally made it to North America thanks to Paccar also, they sold it here for a couple years before replacing it with the current "club" cabbed DAF.

[Jamaican Bulldog]

I am familiar with Leylands but did not know that the T45 ( also called Roadtrain in some versions) made it to the U.S as Paccar products.

Leyland was also a great truck that ruled the roads as trucks and buses in Jamaica and elsewhere for years. They were so reliable and easy to maintain that when the major components of other makes wore out they would often replace them with Leyland parts. However British Leylans went downhill and couldn't compete as well in the late 70s and 80s and was bought by DAF which was also acquired by PACCAR.

 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Actually the T45 crossed the Atlantic to America in several forms. For a start, Truck magazine ran a couple articles on Leyland testing the T45 in Canada in winter and Death Valley in summer. Their was an outfit in West Virginia that imported at least one T45, did enough "assembling" to call themselves a manufacturer, then tried to sell them to the state, taking advantage of a "buy local" preference. A few years later T45 cabs popped up on rebuilt American chassis in western Canada, but I don't think that effort at truck "manufacturing" went anywhere either.

BTW, there were a lot transatlantic deals like this that resulted in one off or short production runs or importing of Euro trucks in America- For example Schweing concrete placers brought over and mounted their concrete placer on at least one Terberg with a Volvo F10 cab here in Minnesota, Advance-United trucking used Mercedes cabovers for city tractors, etc..

[BC Mack]

T45 with a Fuller box and a TL12 engine... finally a Leyland 'lorry' that worked and made money for the owner, then they sold it all to DAF and it became the DAF 80... IIRC, brain cells not fully charged..

looked much nicer with "Scammell" on the front, S26?

too long ago to remember facts..!!

doesn't surprise me that one came to Canada for cold testing.... saw another Euro Cabover here about 18 or so months ago with the white/black 'dazzle' camo paint/wrap.... only got a glance at it but the hubs looked like a Scania, maybe... and there is an FH16 running local tests with Wesport...

We have a few older F12's locally, Dutch guy runs them on a 'farm' permit shipping his tulips to the US... and a few ex Brit Army Bedfords appear in farm fields... so, some Euro stuff is over here.

BC Mack

 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Yup, the Scammell version looked much more "truckly"!

[Jamaican Bulldog]

Sorry to deviate from the original topic. Yes the Leyland TL12 was a reliable and great engine but I think the competing 250hp and 290hp Cummins became more popular in the mountainous regions such as where I am from because they could be had with engine brakes such as Jakes. Some of their smaller engines were great too such as the 411 turbo and even the non-aspirated 401 in smaller trucks and buses that hauled a lot more than they were rated for. A Similar story too on the larger Scammells with the Rolls Royce engines. I remember a quad-steer one in particular that would take short cuts through a steep graded rural area with heavy loads of sand. The residents would block the roads to prevent it from passing through because they thought it stall on the steep grades and roll back into their houses etc. It never failed.

 

[Neo]

Jamaican Bulldog.... The Leyland Freighter still rules Jamaica.

[Jamaican Bulldog]

11 hours ago, Neo said:

Jamaican Bulldog.... The Leyland Freighter still rules Jamaica.

Yes I still notice quite a few Leylands there. They are durable and easy to maintain.

There was a time when there was a larger proportion of Leylands compared  other makes in Jamaica, but now there are a lot more American makes on the road as Leyland and other English makes have dwindled. The lower cost of shipping used trucks and availability of getting parts for relatively inexpensive and powerful trucks from Miami made the American more desirable. Plus a lot of tractors were converted to straight trucks. In addition British LeyLand doesn't make new trucks anymore apart from the models for DAF. I remember when there were many, Leylands, Seddon Atkinsons, ERF, Bedfords on the road in Jamaica. I actually had an old 71 Atkinson for a little while with 250 Cummins  when someone helped me briefly to venture into the truck business.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Jamaican Bulldog

[Neo]

OK cool....yeah Many Mack international freightliners and kenwork are out here..... Still plenty 80s Leyland freighter going strong..... That one is a fav.... The Bedford and Seddon Atkinson kinda rare.... Ice heard many people say they don't like the Seddon Atkinson much because its technical to maintain

[Jamaican Bulldog]

5 hours ago, Neo said:

OK cool....yeah Many Mack international freightliners and kenwork are out here..... Still plenty 80s Leyland freighter going strong..... That one is a fav.... The Bedford and Seddon Atkinson kinda rare.... Ice heard many people say they don't like the Seddon Atkinson much because its technical to maintain

My truck was so old its was a 'Atkinson' before Seddon merged with Atkinson to become 'Seddon Atkinson'. I later learned my model was a  Atkinson Borderer. It was an odd looking COE but not a tilt cab and was so hot that not even a cooler could keep ice from melting and water cool. It had a metal steering wheel, 250hp Cummins, ( the old non-turbo type) but sounded great. A 9spd fuller, but the shift pattern was different from other trucks, ( you shifted in a H pattern with the lower gears from right to left rather than the conventional left to right pattern). The rears were kirkstall ( went out of business decades ago) which looked a lot like Mack planetary rears. I only saw one more 'Atkinson' ever on the road and never another truck with kirkstall rears. I will post a pic one day if I find it. It was converted from a tanker to a 20' dump.

[Neo]

I can just imagine how hard it was to drive.... It was slow I can bet

[BC Mack]

20 hours ago, Jamaican Bulldog said:

My truck was so old its was a 'Atkinson' before Seddon merged with Atkinson to become 'Seddon Atkinson'. I later learned my model was a  Atkinson Borderer. It was an odd looking COE but not a tilt cab and was so hot that not even a cooler could keep ice from melting and water cool. It had a metal steering wheel, 250hp Cummins, ( the old non-turbo type) but sounded great. A 9spd fuller, but the shift pattern was different from other trucks, ( you shifted in a H pattern with the lower gears from right to left rather than the conventional left to right pattern). The rears were kirkstall ( went out of business decades ago) which looked a lot like Mack planetary rears. I only saw one more 'Atkinson' ever on the road and never another truck with kirkstall rears. I will post a pic one day if I find it. It was converted from a tanker to a 20' dump.

I worked for a Seddon Atkinson dealer in the UK in the 70's.... many a day spent twisted up inside the wood and fibreglass cab of a Borderer fixing Cummins, Rolls or Gardner engines... explains my poor knees nowadays..!!... the fuel tankers needed a Petroleum Regs kit fitted to the rear of the cab making any access to the back head impossible... took 3 of us to torque the heads..LOL

when they brought out the SA400 model in 1976, joy!!!!!.. a tilt cab... they were owned by International Harvester by then.

the odd shift pattern carried over to the 400, lucky you didn't get a David Brown box... and the Kirkstall axle was standard fit (they called it the 'group axle'..)

when they built them with Cummins E290, 9509A and Eaton axle they then got something that actually worked, but by then the UK truck manufacturing was in drastic decline and didn't last long into the 80's..

internet is full of pics...and forums for that era.

BC Mack

[Jamaican Bulldog]

14 minutes ago, BC Mack said:

I worked for a Seddon Atkinson dealer in the UK in the 70's.... many a day spent twisted up inside the wood and fibreglass cab of a Borderer fixing Cummins, Rolls or Gardner engines... explains my poor knees nowadays..!!... the fuel tankers needed a Petroleum Regs kit fitted to the rear of the cab making any access to the back head impossible... took 3 of us to torque the heads..LOL

when they brought out the SA400 model in 1976, joy!!!!!.. a tilt cab... they were owned by International Harvester by then.

the odd shift pattern carried over to the 400, lucky you didn't get a David Brown box... and the Kirkstall axle was standard fit (they called it the 'group axle'..)

when they built them with Cummins E290, 9509A and Eaton axle they then got something that actually worked, but by then the UK truck manufacturing was in drastic decline and didn't last long into the 80's..

internet is full of pics...and forums for that era.

BC Mack

Thanks for some insight on the old Atkinson. I didn't know that IH had owned Seddon Atkinson.

When I ventured into the trucking business, the gentleman that wanted to help me get a start had a gasoline distribution truck company with a fleet of mostly Freightliner straight tankers and tractor trailers. He said he had 2 old trucks in at the mechanic shop sitting for years. He could fix one up for me to operate  if I would do the leg work of getting the parts and getting it ready for the road. The choice was a Foden with a Gardener engine or the Atkinson with the Cummins. He thought the Atkinson would be the better choice. When I went to see it I was expecting the Seddon Atkinson tilt cab type with the 290, but was surprised to see the odd looking Atkinson. I had never seen one before.

I had a lot of surprises with that truck. The faded shift pattern plate in the cab indicated an unusual ZF shift pattern so I was happy to hear it was changed to a fuller. Then surprised to find out the odd shift pattern.

It turned a lot of heads for different reasons. Some found it interesting looking, some thought I was nuts to operate such old truck. The first day on the job and its first trip, a rear axle broke in a corner on a rural hill road while carrying a load of crushed stone (marl) and blocked the entire road with a line of trucks behind me trying to reach the same destination. I got nervous and embarrassed because I thought they would get mad at me for blocking the road especially since we were all paid on each trip, but they were sympathetic because they all had experience with truck troubles on the road.

The only truck ahead of me was a smaller six wheeler Leyland Clydesdale that couldn't pull me out. The stronger trucks were all behind me. Luckily a road grader pulled me out so they the others could pass. It wasn't encouraging hearing all the comments about how hard it would be finding the axle for a kirkstall.

It took a few days, knocking on doors and a lot of driving chasing leads to find that very rare axle for a kirkstall rear end. I eventually found one buried in mud in a grass field with old trucks by literally kicking through the grass as an old man told me 'there might be one laying out there'

[BC Mack]

I can only imagine your surprise getting a wood and fibreglass 'model kit' to drive... I refused to test drive them after working on them, pulled them out of the shop and gave the keys to the foreman...LOL... after towing in many accident trucks I had no reason to put my life at risk with 1950's braking specs... when they jacknifed they took the cab clean off, rarely survivable..!!!!!

I moved into the truck rental division of the dealership chain, ran the maintenance, brand new Volvo F88 and F10's and new S/A400's with 250 or 290's.... life at the top...!!! :-)

there were guys in the shop who loved working on the old gargage truck just because they liked Seddons, go figure.

enough thread drift.... your question was about Mack... 

as I said, internet is full of history and photos, here is the company history and ref to Harvester... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seddon_Atkinson

BC Mack

[Jamaican Bulldog]

12 minutes ago, BC Mack said:

I can only imagine your surprise getting a wood and fibreglass 'model kit' to drive... I refused to test drive them after working on them, pulled them out of the shop and gave the keys to the foreman...LOL... after towing in many accident trucks I had no reason to put my life at risk with 1950's braking specs... when they jacknifed they took the cab clean off, rarely survivable..!!!!!

I moved into the truck rental division of the dealership chain, ran the maintenance, brand new Volvo F88 and F10's and new S/A400's with 250 or 290's.... life at the top...!!! :-)

there were guys in the shop who loved working on the old gargage truck just because they liked Seddons, go figure.

enough thread drift.... your question was about Mack... 

as I said, internet is full of history and photos, here is the company history and ref to Harvester... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seddon_Atkinson

Thanks!! very interesting. BTW the Mack MH (which it seems you have) to me is still the best looking cab cover ever. They still look modern today. I hope to have one at some point.

I notice they seem to be less expensive to buy than the conventional such as the R.