Jamaican Bulldog Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Not sure if this was discussed before since I am new to this forum. It is good to see that some original Mack designed components are still available such as the camel back suspension, rear axles and the triple shaft transmission. However how much of current Mack components are still engineered or developed in the U.S? Did Volvo keep the original Mack engineering staff when they took over or is everything new is now developed in Sweden, and then just produced in the U.S for Mack? Recently I read that when Volvo cars ( which I know is a separate company) was taken over by the new Chinese owners Geely, the Chinese respected the prestige and engineering of Volvo and was careful to keep product development in Sweden while giving financial support for product development. It has now been paying off as Volvo cars has made a good comeback in sales. I wish it was a similar story during the Mack acquisition. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) They kept only few select things which they charge the the nose for , the mack diffs and the tranys, and some suspension stuf the rest is rebadged Volvo trash ,any of the well engineered mack ideas were tossed to the side of the road and buried. Edited May 1, 2017 by fjh Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-368787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kt_Engineer Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Mack triple counter-shaft transmission and top mount double reduction axle are still designed, developed and built in USA. Reliable as always and built like a Mack truck. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-374775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaican Bulldog Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 On 7/12/2017 at 11:03 PM, kt_Engineer said: Mack triple counter-shaft transmission and top mount double reduction axle are still designed, developed and built in USA. Reliable as always and built like a Mack truck. I wonder what proportion of Macks sold still use the Mack triple counter shaft transmissions and/or the Mack top mounted reduction axles? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 They are pushing mDRIVE down everyone's throat and pricing the Real Truck parts out of reach ! So it's likely a 10 to 1 split! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TeamsterGrrrl Posted July 22, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 22, 2017 mDrive is Volvo's trojan horse- No parts are available, and the only option is a rebuilt one from Volvo for $15k. That's about what a tractor is worth by the time the mDrive wears out, which will result in a lot of Mack and Volvo tractors being scrapped prematurely. Volvo assumes we'll replace those scrapped Mack and Volvo tractors with more of the same, forgetting that they have competition. 3 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaican Bulldog Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 9 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said: mDrive is Volvo's trojan horse- No parts are available, and the only option is a rebuilt one from Volvo for $15k. That's about what a tractor is worth by the time the mDrive wears out, which will result in a lot of Mack and Volvo tractors being scrapped prematurely. Volvo assumes we'll replace those scrapped Mack and Volvo tractors with more of the same, forgetting that they have competition. Wow, that's a shame. I remember years ago when I toured the Macungie plant, the guide took pride in saying that Macks were built to last at least 30 years. I believed it since many old ones were still on the road. I guess that philosophy has changed. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog13407 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 They must have been building the last of the R models and DMs when you toured the plant because the new junk sure as hell won't last 30 years. Be lucky if you can get 5 without the ABS and service engine light haunting you. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaican Bulldog Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 52 minutes ago, Maddog13407 said: they must have been building the last of the R models and DMs when you toured the plant cause the new junk sure as hell wont last 30 years. be luck if you can get 5 without the abs and service engine light haunting you Yes, it was about between 98 and 2000 when I did the tour. So they were still building the R and DM models while the CH and CL I believe was being built in SC at the time. I even saw an RD 800 roll off the line which I think was for export to a oil field. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamsterGrrrl Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Before Volvo took over, Mack understood that a lot of their customers did seasonal work like construction and thus didn't wear out a truck in a decade or less. In the off season when they weren't busy these same customers rebuilt their trucks, so a useful life of 30 years was expected of a Mack. Volvo comes from a whole different culture where a truck is expected to be retired in 10 years or less to keep the economy juiced and get the old trucks that don't have the latest safety and emissions equipment off the road. Volvo doesn't get it, and when a Mack customer finds a part for their decade old truck is overpriced or not even available, they cease to be a Mack customer... 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
james j neiweem Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 They cease to be a Mack customer/ That seems to have happened a lot over the last 20 years. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaican Bulldog Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 14 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said: Before Volvo took over, Mack understood that a lot of their customers did seasonal work like construction and thus didn't wear out a truck in a decade or less. In the off season when they weren't busy these same customers rebuilt their trucks, so a useful life of 30 years was expected of a Mack. Volvo comes from a whole different culture where a truck is expected to be retired in 10 years or less to keep the economy juiced and get the old trucks that don't have the latest safety and emissions equipment off the road. Volvo doesn't get it, and when a Mack customer finds a part for their decade old truck is overpriced or not even available, they cease to be a Mack customer... Many customers also used their Macks all year round and they lasted over 30 yrs. One of the problems I experienced was that not only was the replacement part for the 10 yr old truck overpriced, even though it was 'genuine' Mack parts it didn't even last half as long as the original. I once had an embarrassing situation where I bought some parts at a Mack dealer for someone over seas. He emphasized that it had to be Mack original which I did, it even had the Mack logo etc engrained on them. Not long after he questioned if I had really bought the original Mack parts because they were wearing out already. I felt embarrassed because I didn't want him to think I had got him expensive fake parts. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41180 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 17 hours ago, Jamaican Bulldog said: Many customers also used their Macks all year round and they lasted over 30 yrs. One of the problems I experienced was that not only was the replacement part for the 10 yr old truck overpriced, even though it was 'genuine' Mack parts it didn't even last half as long as the original. I once had an embarrassing situation where I bought some parts at a Mack dealer for someone over seas. He emphasized that it had to be Mack original which I did, it even had the Mack logo etc engrained on them. Not long after he questioned if I had really bought the original Mack parts because they were wearing out already. I felt embarrassed because I didn't want him to think I had got him expensive fake parts. That's normal you install new parts in a old truck they never last as long , that was happening 20 years ago. It's just how it works Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kt_Engineer Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 On 7/21/2017 at 11:27 PM, Jamaican Bulldog said: I wonder what proportion of Macks sold still use the Mack triple counter shaft transmissions and/or the Mack top mounted reduction axles? Triple countershaft transmissions are down because people don't know how to drive a manual transmission anymore. The fleets want mDrive as they can't retain or train drivers fast enough. Top mount double reduction axle is still significant portion of what Mack sells. It is standard option in Granite, MR and LE's. This is one component that is still "built like a Mack Truck". The L1 life for Mack axle is 500,000 miles for linehaul application (i.e 99% of axles will last that long without any failures). Some customer want watered down version of Mack axle b'cos it never breaks and expensive. Unfortunately, Mack axle does not have volume like Meritor or Dana axle. Mack axle is designed for worst case application and when it is advertised at 150,000 lbs (CRD150/151 carrier) it is for all ratios and does NOT come with conditions apply (unlike Meritor axle where only certain ratios are valid at high GCW and only if 100% load one way and 60% load return). There are some Mack carriers (CRD95/96) which were first designed in 1945 and still in production without any changes. Hub reduction expensive axles are no match to this Mack axle (this is coming straight out of a customer in Argentina who broke $40,000 Axletech axle in oilfield within couple of months while CRD95/96 did NOT have a single issue in 4 years. This is doing crazy stuff in oil field dragging 80,000 lb machinery literally on the ground). 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kt_Engineer Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 On 7/22/2017 at 9:58 AM, TeamsterGrrrl said: mDrive is Volvo's trojan horse- No parts are available, and the only option is a rebuilt one from Volvo for $15k. That's about what a tractor is worth by the time the mDrive wears out, which will result in a lot of Mack and Volvo tractors being scrapped prematurely. Volvo assumes we'll replace those scrapped Mack and Volvo tractors with more of the same, forgetting that they have competition. You will soon be able to order input shaft, range synchronizer kits. Changes are happening including updating components and design to last longer. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 9 hours ago, kt_Engineer said: Triple countershaft transmissions are down because people don't know how to drive a manual transmission anymore. The fleets want mDrive as they can't retain or train drivers fast enough. Top mount double reduction axle is still significant portion of what Mack sells. It is standard option in Granite, MR and LE's. This is one component that is still "built like a Mack Truck". The L1 life for Mack axle is 500,000 miles for linehaul application (i.e 99% of axles will last that long without any failures). Some customer want watered down version of Mack axle b'cos it never breaks and expensive. Unfortunately, Mack axle does not have volume like Meritor or Dana axle. Mack axle is designed for worst case application and when it is advertised at 150,000 lbs (CRD150/151 carrier) it is for all ratios and does NOT come with conditions apply (unlike Meritor axle where only certain ratios are valid at high GCW and only if 100% load one way and 60% load return). There are some Mack carriers (CRD95/96) which were first designed in 1945 and still in production without any changes. Hub reduction expensive axles are no match to this Mack axle (this is coming straight out of a customer in Argentina who broke $40,000 Axletech axle in oilfield within couple of months while CRD95/96 did NOT have a single issue in 4 years. This is doing crazy stuff in oil field dragging 80,000 lb machinery literally on the ground). Nobody appreciates the Mack double reduction carrier/axle more than me. But there have been superb planetary hub reduction axles, including the Mack Planidrive and Steyr units. Today, the Scania, MAN and Mercedes-Benz planetary hub reduction axles are excellent units that will not disappoint. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 8 hours ago, kt_Engineer said: You will soon be able to order input shaft, range synchronizer kits. Changes are happening including updating components and design to last longer. However you still need a bunch of special tooling to dis assemble so don,t go ripping into one in your Garage Synchronizer Issues tend to be fairly common with these (cheaply made ) and of poor design How ever they are addressing this issue to make em out live the warranty at least As for the true Mack diff They also have messed with its design with some what with some alleged Improvements one bolt to hold the spur gear and preload instead of three ! Sorry Had to throw that in there We have had a few diffs scatter in the last while cause the redesign came loose if it aint broke Dont fix it! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said: Nobody appreciates the Mack double reduction carrier/axle more than me. But there have been superb planetary hub reduction axles, including the Mack Planidrive and Steyr units. Today, the Scania, MAN and Mercedes-Benz planetary hub reduction axles are excellent units that will not disappoint. Agree totally! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kt_Engineer Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, fjh said: Improvements one bolt to hold the spur gear and preload instead of three ! Sorry Had to throw that in there We have had a few diffs scatter in the last while cause the redesign came loose if it aint broke Dont fix it! The one bolt design to hold bevel gear onto spur/Helical shaft was introduced with CRD150/151 and is the only carrier series that has that design currently (CRD125/126, CRD202/203 or CRD95/96 have 3-bolt design). The issue you had coming loose is unfortunately not related to the design, it is the suppliers screwing up the heat-treatment and ending up with over-size threads. Bear in mind there are somewhere between 80,000-100,000 trucks in field with this design (Launched in 2009) and if it was a design issue we would have seen huge rash of failures in the field. The one's that have been analyzed show an over-size thread issue. More emphasis is being placed to control the thread size to avoid such issues in the future. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I would tend to prefer the 3-bolt design. We never had any trouble with that. Why change a proven and trouble-free design? For the sake of change? As for issues with the CRD150/151, the customer doesn't care if it's a design or supplier issue. Either way, that's a Volvo internal issue. For the customer, that's immaterial. His truck is down and not generating revenue. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, kt_Engineer said: The one bolt design to hold bevel gear onto spur/Helical shaft was introduced with CRD150/151 and is the only carrier series that has that design currently (CRD125/126, CRD202/203 or CRD95/96 have 3-bolt design). The issue you had coming loose is unfortunately not related to the design, it is the suppliers screwing up the heat-treatment and ending up with over-size threads. Bear in mind there are somewhere between 80,000-100,000 trucks in field with this design (Launched in 2009) and if it was a design issue we would have seen huge rash of failures in the field. The one's that have been analyzed show an over-size thread issue. More emphasis is being placed to control the thread size to avoid such issues in the future. Well I stand corrected then! just checking to see if you were paying attention Bud! Its Not unfortunate the concept of only haveing to stock one gear set is a plus for the dealers ! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just now, kscarbel2 said: I would tend to prefer the 3-bolt design. We never had any trouble with that. Why change a proven and trouble-free design? For the sake of change? As for issues with the CRD150/151, the customer doesn't care if it's a design or supplier issue. Either way, that's a Volvo internal issue. For the customer, that's immaterial. His truck is down and not generating revenue. Yup Kev You hit the nail on the head if it ain't broke dont fix it! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaican Bulldog Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 Does anyone else offer top mounted axles/carriers and did Mack only make that type? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Jamaican Bulldog said: Does anyone else offer top mounted axles/carriers and did Mack only make that type? U.S. military 2-1/2 ton and 5-ton trucks all used Rockwell top-mounted carriers. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
james j neiweem Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 KT_: I get the impression you may be a Mack employee(engineer)? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/49695-how-much-of-mack-truck-component-development-is-still-done-in-the-us/#findComment-375802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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