Getting a CDL only to have a classic truck questions

[Jamaican Bulldog]

I have always liked old trucks especially Macks. Apart form a brief stint with a large truck over 20 yrs ago in Jamaica ( large 10 wheeler 1970 British Atkinson with a 18 yard dump 250 Cummins and 9 sp fuller), I have never been involved in trucking, but always liked the idea of having one to take to shows or just to have.

Is it crazy just to get a CDL only to have the ability to have and drive a classic Mack to shows etc?

Do I need a tractor trailer class license if I only drive the tractor with no trailer? ( I live in NY so I know states may vary)

I am thinking of a R, DM ( favorite Mack), U, MH, Superliner, or even a LTL. 

[609albert]

I think you don't need a CDL if it has antique regristration ,in jersey anyway.

[1958 F.W.D.]

This question is often asked and even more often debated. Bottom line, a CDL shows that you are somewhat competent and have demonstrated knowledge of heavy vehicle operation and systems if you obtain the endorsements like air brakes.

That being said, many (unknowing but trying to be helpful) people will insist that it is a "commercial vehicle and you need a CDL due to federal laws."

-WRONG!!!

Once it is tagged and insured by a state as an antique or collectible vehicle, it is NO LONGER a commercial vehicle. Period. It is now a privately owned antique or collectible vehicle that may happen to weigh in excess of 26,001 lbs. And many states do not require a CDL to operate an antique or collectible vehicle even if it is in excess of 26,001 and has air brakes.

You need to check with your individual state,  but you need to make sure you are speaking with someone who is knowledgeable of the motor vehicle codes of that state. If you walk into the local branch office of the DMV, the clerk behind the counter may or may not know anything about it- more than likely if you say the words "antique tractor trailer" they will probably go into vapor lock.

In Pennsylvania- a CDL is NOT needed to operate a vehicle weighing in excess of 26,001 lbs with air brakes that is tagged and insured as an antique vehicle and is not used within the definition of "Commerce." 

[Underdog]

Think of it as a recreational vehicle. All those retired folk going up & down the road with giant bus campers or 40' 5th wheel trailers. No CDL required.

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[Brocky]

Basically FWD is correct, but some of these laws vary by state. As long as it is licensed and insured Historic/Antique and is NOT used in any way to generate revenue / compensation for the truck OR the driver a CDL is NOT required. Trophys and ribbons do not count as compensation, but buying your breakfast or a case of beer do count!!

Go to the chapter section of either ATCA Double Clutch or ATHS Wheels of Time magazines and contact a chapter president from your state and get the correct information and possibly a letter of exemption.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Brocky

[farmer52]

So the confusion continues.

Recently the ATCA Keystone Chapter (central PA) had a PADOT officer speak.  He told us you need a CDL if the vehicle combination weighs over 26,001.  Also was told trophies, prizes, etc. do count as compensation.  If your vehicle is licensed as an Antique, you can do anything you want as long as it does not involve any compensation.  Also, cannot be operated during nondaylight hours.

Gregg - motor home operators do not need a CDL because the vehicle is licensed as a RV.

Ohio (where I am licensed) requires a medical card in order to maintain a CDL.  No medical card...no CDL.  My CDL expires in July so off to the CVS minute clinic to get my physical.

Again, the confusion continues and often comes down to who you talk to.

[Underdog]

Ken, you sleep in your trailer, could the Roll Hauler be classified as an RV?

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[Hobert62]

49 minutes ago, farmer52 said:

Again, the confusion continues and often comes down to who you talk to.

I was told in PA an antique vehicle can be operated after daylight as long as it has a state inspection 1 time (doesn't mater if its expired) showing it has DOT approved lighting.    

[Brocky]

Ken

I am stating South Carolina laws as stated to our chapter by a SGT in the SCDPS Transport Police (our diesel cops).. He also showed us a form where you could check "Interstate Excepted" and could retain your CDL with NO physical, BUT you or the truck could NOT receive and compensation while operating the vehicle..

[farmer52]

9 hours ago, Underdog said:

Ken, you sleep in your trailer, could the Roll Hauler be classified as an RV?
 

Gregg - The Roll Hauler has OH Historical plates so I am not concerned about driving as long as I have a CDL.  As for the trailer, it costs about $35 per year for license.  Somewhere I remember hearing to be classified as a RV or travel trailer, it must have a bathroom.  Not sure if a port-a-potty or a bucket qualifies as a "bathroom".  When I lived in Illinois (70s-80s), a pickup truck with a topper could be licensed as a RV.

Brocky - my point is it seems each state has different criteria and again who you talk to.  For years I was told I needed a DOT number but eventually I talked to a person that gave me the FMCA exemption paragraph number for non-commercial non-revenue vehicles.  As for the lights, the unit must have operating lights (headlights, brake, tail, turn, etc.) per the manufacture date but the PADOT officer specifically stated it cannot be operated during non-daylight hours.  Again...who you talk to.

Our Chapter was also told not to bypass a weigh station.  There is no way the officers in the station can see if you have a Historical/Antique plate on your vehicle.  Vehicle weight (over weight) is still a regulation with any vehicle.  IIRC, the weight limit for a single axle tractor and single axle trailer is 52K lbs.  According to the PA Turnpike, my setup is a Class 4 (19,001-30,000).

My MH and trailer are registered in OH (my permanent residence) but operated almost exclusively in PA.  So my question is "Do I go by OH or PA regs when operating"?  I drove the unit to Iowa in May and never got stopped/questioned.  And I passed many DOT vehicles.

[Brocky]

As long as all the registration and drivers license have an Ohio address I would operate under Ohio rules.. And all states are "Supposed" to honor the base plate state rules.

I was told that you do not have to stop at the scales, BUT to do so as a courtesy to let them see the Antique / Historical plate. This is especially true for the 80's and 90's trucks which still might be in service commercially.

Yes your are right on the "who you talk to" statement!!!

Edited June 22, 2017 by Brocky

[Quickfarms]

I do not scale in my motorhome, it is low key and based on an all wheel drive three axle truck, once after passing the scales a white CHP car came up behind me real fast and paced my back bumper for a few seconds then floored it and took off.

 

And for the record I do have a class A CDL

[BC Mack]

around here, the driver and vehicle licencing is for the "use" of the vehicle... not what the vehicle actually is... had a good conversation with the regional manager of licencing standards a few years ago about that... and it doesn't need special plates either but there is a great financial advantage to go to "collector" plates as the govt does all licencing AND mandatory basic insurance..(comprehensive is free market or govt).... with collector plate my fully comp is $500 and it saves me over $1500 a year vs a regular plate due to to weight.. fully commercial would be 6-8000 or more a year.

for my Mack and my Scenicruiser bus I only need a car licence (class 5 or better), however, ANY vehicle/trailer/RV with an air or air/hydraulic braking system requires the driver have an "air endorsement" on their driver's licence and if pulling a trailer over 14,500lbs (IIRC) requires a Class 1 or a "heavy trailer endorsement"

neither vehicle requires annual or semi-annual testing

if I take a trip to the US, the licencing of driver and truck is supposed to be reciprocal, as is your state-state... will see what happens one day if I venture south... going to take my 1956 Greyhound Bus through the border in the "bus only" lane and see what happens..!!! 

scales... if it says "trucks" over xx gvw I go by, if it says "all vehicles" over xx gvw I have to pull in.... which confuses the DOT guy and I get waved through, so, as in the US, the govt guys are just as confused as we are.

all this is dependent on my insurance showing as "pleasure use only", no revenue, but we do have rules to allow carpool financial sharing.....

this is a vastly variable subject through most states, misunderstood by many... tickets could be issued in error which may cost you $$$ in court to fight, and then it happens again... I'm sure there are loopholes for "farm" which sometimes amazes me what I thought was reserved for farm tractors can be B train semi loads of hay..!!!

not sure if this helps you in NY... but will explain all the inconsistencies in the replies you are seeing....

BC Mack

 

[Brocky]

BC

The rules and regulations for "Farm" plates is even more wild and confusing than Antique!!! A lot of it is who was in power when they were written.. The Farmers or the City people!!!

South Carolina you now (starting in 2013) have to show your income tax form for a farm business to be eligible. But then any vehicle with a manufactures empty (shipping) weight of less than 7500 pounds can be used for "General and ordinary purposes".. I went to Fairbanks Alaska and back with my F-250 on farm plates and never got stopped or questioned.. One Wyoming State cop followed me for about 5 miles while he checked his computer, then went by and waved..

[MACKTRUCKS4]

Reminds me a  time I got stopped at the scales. The two officers were arguing over the color of my eyes. My license stated they were BROWN. One said " No they are BLUE. They other said "they are  GREEN"  But clearly they were "RED"     LOL

Clearly you will get  a different answer with everyone you ask.

[Hobert62]

2 hours ago, MACKTRUCKS4 said:

Reminds me a  time I got stopped at the scales. The two officers were arguing over the color of my eyes. My license stated they were BROWN. One said " No they are BLUE. They other said "they are  GREEN"  But clearly they were "RED"     LOL

Clearly you will get  a different answer with everyone you ask.

I've had red hair all my life.  Over the years it has gotten darker. I'm told that happens before it turns white.   But the last time I got my pistol permit the sheriffs department crossed the red off and changed it to brown????        

 

(Clearly you will get  a different answer with everyone you ask.)    

 

That's the best answer right there 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jamaican Bulldog]

I tried Googling and checking the NY DMV site couldn't find any answers relating to vintage commercial vehicles, however I did see that a RV didn't  need a CDL

[1958 F.W.D.]

Ken, I was told by a Pa Diesel Cop at the Dublin, Pa Barracks that the "Daylight" hours only applies to vehicles manufactured prior to 1953- which apparently do not comply with current FMVSS lighting unless current (post 1953) lighting has been installed. 

[BC Mack]

I had a plan B if they refused me a "collector" plate.... found out what they needed to convert a class 8 tractor into an RV on the title and tow a 5th wheel RV trailer... but could also be similar for class 7 box body too.... I'm doing a Sprinter van to RV conversion right now and my govt agent is spinning as the rule states 'he' must inspect the finished conversion but doesn't tell him 'what' to look for...!!!

for a semi they had a list of 5 items out of 7 to chose from... remove semi 5th wheel plate and install RV plate, it needed then a bed, cooking facilities, heater and a sink... so an invertor and toaster oven, the sink could even be outside, heat could be a ceramic out of home depot.... it was interesting how easy it was to do... and there is even an document on the DOT website that exempts the conversion from semi-annual testing.

there is a website for these vehicles if that is the way for you to go and they are friendly too.... http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?/forum/32-hdt/   the V***o VNL is a common conversion, their logic is that for a small price they can tow a massive home for much less $$ than buying a Dodge or Ford diesel pick-up which could be close to gvw and braking power.

just shows, there's ALWAYS a loophole, find the regulations, print it out and keep in the cab so you can wave it at Barney Fife.... the political clout the RV industry has that allows anyone to drive a 60,000lb RV with a car licence and no extra training or testing must be marveled at..!!!!

BC Mack

 

 

[Hobert62]

2 hours ago, 1958 F.W.D. said:

Ken, I was told by a Pa Diesel Cop at the Dublin, Pa Barracks that the "Daylight" hours only applies to vehicles manufactured prior to 1953- which apparently do not comply with current FMVSS lighting unless current (post 1953) lighting has been installed. 

I was just told that today by an inspection mechanic.   

[mowerman]

I see everybody has their own opinion here I'm just going to tell you flat out my friend I don't know haha every state is different and I don't have any idea what they do here in Nevada.....good luck....bob

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[Quickfarms]

I was just told that today by an inspection mechanic.   

I think this has to do with the single little tail light

[BillyT]

There was a B67  on Craigslist about a year ago and the seller said it was licensed as a camper and therefore required no cdl! It was a day cab with a tilt bed ( like a wrecker bed). I turned in my cdl three years ago.The  dmv man said I could get it back (with all.endorsements) by taking a physical and eye test I'm sure I would also be charged the higher license fee and the individual endorsement fees. Back in the 70s Overdrive Magazine hauled a load of their magazines from  their facility in LA to Washington D.C. and notified the ICC what they were doing and where the load was parked to prove that if you owned your load of freight you didn't have to log your trip! Mike Parkhurst was challenging the ICC to prosecute them and he would initiate a legal suit! The ICC didn't accept the challenge and no one was prosecuted! I gave this example to illustrate that you'd have to the proverbial "Philadelphia lawyer" to even remotely understand all the nuances of the law as it pertains to state and interstate commercial vehicle regulations! It occurs to me, do the drivers of race car transporters have to log their trips? They are carrying the team's cars and equipment. I'm sure the equipment is subject to DOT mechanical standards! And could be pulled over and DOTed! By an officer!