Body-on-frame [light] trucks refuse to die

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Agreed, but I'm not going to take 1800 mile trips with a 10 year old vehicle I don't know the history of.

[Ezrider]

10 years old is nothing now days, iv taken 1200 mile trips in vehicles 3 times older, check it over good do some preventative maintenance and hit the road. my pickup is 10 years old now, i made a 1300 mile trip in it this winter.  most modern cars you can pretty well count on 250k+ miles with just routine maintenance and upkeep assuming there not abused. 

i sold one of my spare pickups this last winter had 350k on the clock 1993 6.5L turbo 5 speed still ran and drove great. 

i do try to keep my primary pickup that's going to see most of my towing dutys less than 15 years old and under 250k miles. but no reason to have to go bran new either.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Everybody and their brother wants a pickup around here, so it's a sellers market that the dealers take advantage of- I often see 5 year old pickups selling for about the same price I can get a new one for at fleet pricing. Get much older than that and you start seeing expensive rust problems on the underside of vehicles- My Ranger cab and box looks great but I've had to replace almost every brake line due to rust, and some of the 10+ year old Rangers have had frames rust through. and after I've spent $20k on a 5 year old pickup I still have to worry about a $5k engine or transmission rebuild. And that $20k pickup only gets 15 MPG.

The good deals are in small cars, which are cheap to begin with and depreciate fast- I can buy a new Focus, Cruze, etc. for around $15k new and way less used. They get around 30 MPG, and put on a trailer hitch and you've got the payload capacity of a half ton pickup. You just have to quit thinking "pickup" and start thinking "car", or at least "minivan"

[HeavyGunner]

How can you buy a vehicle at fleet pricing if you're only buying one? Another example is I paid $4500 cash for my 1 ton, I definitely need the towing capacity and the money I saved (compared to buying new) buys gas and parts beyond the life of the vehicle when compared to the $50k-$70k range for a new one ton. Hell I can buy q brand new engine for around $4k for the truck and then it should be good for at least another 200k. 

[fxfymn]

Due to the high purchase price of new one ton pick ups I am going to get a hoopdy to run errands with in order to keep the mileage down on the new truck. I almost bought a used low mileage diesel Chevy Cruze because it is getting close to 40 MPG and it has twice the power of the gasoline version, but I dicked around until it was gone.

The best hoopdy I ever owned was a 1980 Audi 5 cylinder diesel I got for free because the injector pump was bad. A $500 rebuilt pump and I drove it for 10 years until number 2 son wrecked it.

I keep a newer truck because I want the comfort and reliability. The DW and I travel with our fiver quite a bit and I just don't want to worry about reliability and repair costs while we are on the road. I almost always buy a new fully optioned truck so they are under warranty and as long as I stay on the merry-go-round of selling and buying every 100K miles or so the cost is not much more than buying used. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

1 hour ago, HeavyGunner said:

How can you buy a vehicle at fleet pricing if you're only buying one? Another example is I paid $4500 cash for my 1 ton, I definitely need the towing capacity and the money I saved (compared to buying new) buys gas and parts beyond the life of the vehicle when compared to the $50k-$70k range for a new one ton. Hell I can buy q brand new engine for around $4k for the truck and then it should be good for at least another 200k. 

Ford will give you fleet pricing even if you have a fleet of one such as a taxi owner-operator. If you have a small fleet like many farmers and small businesses do, you can probably get fleet pricing from all of the big three. Or you can get fleet pricing by joining an organization- Farm Bureau members in many states can get fleet pricing, and Cenex Co-Op members can even get discounts on Paccar trucks. There is also supplier (X Plan) pricing- Just about every big company is a supplier to the big three, and you can get Ford supplier pricing by owning Ford stock for 6 months. There are also the group buying deals offered by Costco, etc..

Thus it pays to price out several different ways to buy a vehicle- Before VW came out with a great deal on new TDIs I was pricing out a new Ford Transit Connect using most of the above options.

[Jamaican Bulldog]

14 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

One of the benefits of freedom is people are free to do stupid stuff

Lol, yes that we can agree on even if we disagree sometimes on what might be classified as stupid stuff  

[HeavyGunner]

1 hour ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Ford will give you fleet pricing even if you have a fleet of one such as a taxi owner-operator. If you have a small fleet like many farmers and small businesses do, you can probably get fleet pricing from all of the big three. Or you can get fleet pricing by joining an organization- Farm Bureau members in many states can get fleet pricing, and Cenex Co-Op members can even get discounts on Paccar trucks. There is also supplier (X Plan) pricing- Just about every big company is a supplier to the big three, and you can get Ford supplier pricing by owning Ford stock for 6 months. There are also the group buying deals offered by Costco, etc..

Thus it pays to price out several different ways to buy a vehicle- Before VW came out with a great deal on new TDIs I was pricing out a new Ford Transit Connect using most of the above options.

Cool, I had no idea you could own just one vehicle and get fleet pricing. My assumption obviously was your business had to have x amount of vehicles to qualify. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Bulldog, as a consumer and a Ford shareholder I'm on both sides of the issue... As a shareholder, I love the F series pickups and the SUVs! As a consumer, Ford hasn't even been able to sell me even a Fiesta.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Ford's Fleet eligibility requirements: http://www.fleet.ford.com/get-started/eligibility-documentation/

[BillyT]

Teamster Grrrl I agree with your reasoning,you have to look at the whole picture! The first thing and often the only thing the average person looks at is fuel mileage! So a Dodge Cummins dually is north of 70grand but gets the best fuel economy of any truck that size! So what? That engine is good for 500000 properly maintained, so look for one that an elderly couple bought new and pulled a lightweight camper with and buy it used for thousands less! So you bought a lighter and less expensive tractor which your Golf will tow around probably at 30 mpg! Admittedly it will take twice as long to do what a heavy more expensive tractor would take but you have that time and you don't need that big truck to tow it! This topic reminds me of an anecdote from my hotshot career! We had a reformed Amish couple who leased a big shot rig to our company they had a five stop load of insulation that went to upper New England paid close to 2.00 a mile to the truck in1989 (8000)# my friend who was our agent asked the husband how the load went..."well it took all day,...but we had all day!" We could all learn from the Amish!

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Those are the rare good deals on big pickups, what I see more of is 100k+ miles and asking darn near new fleet price. But I don't need a bigger tractor and thus don't need a truck to haul a bigger tractor anyway- For mowing the Deere 1 series is a bit too big, but it's the smallest tractor available with a front end loader that I need to move snow, etc.. I considered the next smaller Deere 700 series with the Yanmar diesel, but it runs about the same price as a 1 series and they don't offer it with a loader though you can get a 3 point hitch for it. Kubota's BX is about the same size and was thousands cheaper, but Deere came down in price and the dealer's a lot closer so I bought the Deere.

[BillyT]

Just thought of another Amish anecdote! I delivered a load of insulation to an Amish business in the Lancaster pa area. The terrain leading to the dock was dirt and very uneven,after I hit the dock a young Amishman came out to greet me. I said to him "that dock is kind of obtuse"  He grinned and said " everything here is kind of obtuse"😁

[BillyT]

 

Every situation is different the closeness of the dealer and the price reduction made the Deere your choice!I troll Craigslist regularly for fun under hvy equip and I see a lot of small Kubota,Deere etc tractors in the 2500. Up price range but I suspect much of it is scrap! Farmers and contractors are hard on equipment!

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Compact tractor prices are nuts- Saw a nice but 30 year old Ford 1100 with loader a few years back, figured it was worth at most 20% of new= $2,500... Sold for almost twice that! Seen similar at auctions with beat up 30 year old junk bid up to 30%, 40%, even 50% of new price. Even saw an 80s Kubota with a loader that didn't fit or function, a beat up 3 point mower, wouldn't even start, and it went for $2000! People round here are so addicted to rusty old stuff that they won't even look at new, could buy a new Kubota BX18 for under $10k but they'd rather have a yardful of junk, maybe half of which actually runs on a good day!

[HeavyGunner]

The compact tractor craze is everywhere. I understand why, they're small, versatile and you can do many jobs with many implements with one. I just upgraded from my Ferguson TO20 to a 1070 JD with low hours and the JD was far less money than the smaller 18-28 hp tractors. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

The 1070 is a nice tractor, price may have been reasonable because it weights around 3000 pounds bare. I've noticed that heavier tractors tend to bring lower prices, largely because they're more of a hassle to haul. Went to an IH collector's auction a couple years back and the Cub Cadets and Cubs went for the highest prices, followed by the smaller row crop tractors. One tractor had an old skool grader conversion and was in real nice shape, but went for less than a thousand... Probably too much hassle to haul around. The guy had a nice 90s vintage International diesel powered flatbed truck to haul his collection to shows, and IIRC it went for barely $2000.

[Ezrider]

if your willing to hunt for a deal there defiantly out there. my current pickup i bought at 7-8 years old with almost 100k on it had been owned by a crane, rigging company sense new always dealer maintained. never been chipped. not the most highly optioned truck but had the necessity pw/dl cruse air power mirrors cloth seats carpet ect. was a 1 ton long bed extended cab witch is what i was looking for. wasn't the prettiest truck when i bought it tail gate was missing had a dent in the side. interior was dirty had a slight missfire. paid under 7k for it. brought it home cleaned it up fixed the dent painted the bedside and a new tailgate myself. put a couple new injectors in it cleaned it up and its pretty nice now its been a good truck. only problems iv had with it was egr valve sticking and the other was my own fault. filled it with #2 in the winter time without checking the weather report was -30 the next morning and i gelled it up witch in turn took out a couple more fuel injectors. all the work done on it was done myself so to date still have way less than 10k in it. so 50k less than a equivalent new truck. and i have no concerns driving it across the country tomorrow if i need to. 

i have the original window sticker for it id have to pull it out to remember exactly what the original window sticker price was, but probably somewhere in the 40-50k range new equivalent now would be even higher. but its safe to say it deprecated more than 30k in 7 years granted the truck was worth more than i paid for it especially after i fixed a couple things that would scare most buyers away. but even 20k in deprecation is a lot. 

Truck i had before than was a 01 gmc 2500hd i bought it at about 7 years old with about 70k miles on it. paid i think around 13k for it sold it for 10k 7 years later so i only paid 3k in depreciation for 7 years of trouble free of use. (only repairs were breaks coupe sets of tires tires, regular fluid changes, i think one rear wheel seal and both front wheel bearings)

Truck before than i was a 97 f350 i only owned it about 2.5 years but i was using the truck very heavily at the time and put over 190k miles on it. purchased it at just over 100k sold it with over 300k don't remember the exact details on purchase and selling prices anymore but when i sold it 7.3's were a pretty hot ticket truck. i remember getting a pretty good price for it even though it had 300k on the clock.  i don't think i lost more than a couple grand on that one either.

the wife's car we almost gave in and bought new, someone ran into her and totaled her old car so we needed to find something fairly quickly and were not really finding what we were looking for used. then finally came across a 3 year old nissan altima with all the options with only 8k miles on it owned by a elderly woman, she didn't drive much anymore so it sat in the garage most of the time and her husband would drive in his car whenever they went somewhere witch is why they decided to sell the car.  she was only asking about 3k less than new price. i made cash a take it or leave it offer of 6k off new price and said you can deal with tire kickers for the next 3 months or have it sold today. she called me the next morning and took my offer. witch also goes to show just cause someone is listing something at almost new price does not mean that's what it sells for.

so my last 7 year old truck i bought deprecated 3k dollars over my 7 year of ownership. that Nissan altima deprecated 6k over 3 years.  

i don't put much annual millage on any of my cars/trucks anymore. wife works, but only about 6 blocks from the house, so she walks unless she is going to do errands after work or during lunch. she only drives about 2500 miles per year. my pickup will get 7-15k depending on how many long trips it takes. i drive other cars as well plus when im gone in the big truck its not being driven. so at that low of annual millage who really cares about fuel economy. iv tried having half tons as my main vehicle, and i am never happy. towing ratings on vehicles are inflated above what they should be parts wear out faster i don't plan to ever buy a half ton for myself again. 

with her car we almost went new this time with her low annual millage we are planning on at least a 15 year ownership. so we wanted to get exactly what she wanted. we wanted something that would last at least another 15 years, under 50k miles, with all the right options ect. and we needed to find it within a few weeks of shopping. this is a case where. new almost makes sense. 

if you are someone that want's to always have a new car every 3 years and your millage usage falls within lease requirements leasing is really not a bad way to go. but that's a lot of cash for the use of a new vehicle. but if your going to get a new car every 3-4 years anyway its going to cost you just as much in depreciation. 

[Ezrider]

hobby farm size tractors go for insane amounts of money. even very old. of course the same age hobby farm tractor probably has more life left in it than the same age tractor that has been used by a contractor for the same number of years. let alone puts it out of reach weight wise of someone that only has a suv to tow with.

A tractor that requires a semi to move it but has surpassed its life span for commercial use can just about be bought at scrap metal price.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

I looked at compact tractors while I was in Florida and the prices were more reasonable for the age, but most had been used for mowing by golf courses, condos, etc. and had lots of hours on them.

[Jamaican Bulldog]

10 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Ford will give you fleet pricing even if you have a fleet of one such as a taxi owner-operator. If you have a small fleet like many farmers and small businesses do, you can probably get fleet pricing from all of the big three. Or you can get fleet pricing by joining an organization- Farm Bureau members in many states can get fleet pricing, and Cenex Co-Op members can even get discounts on Paccar trucks. There is also supplier (X Plan) pricing- Just about every big company is a supplier to the big three, and you can get Ford supplier pricing by owning Ford stock for 6 months. There are also the group buying deals offered by Costco, etc..

Thus it pays to price out several different ways to buy a vehicle- Before VW came out with a great deal on new TDIs I was pricing out a new Ford Transit Connect using most of the above options.

Yes true, good points. If you have bought at least 5 or more vehicles in the last year or so in your business or currently have 15 or more vehicles operating  no matter the brand you may be eligible for Ford fleet pricing. 

I also handle Ford fleet at my dealership and there is something to consider.

Even if you qualify for fleet pricing and even have a FIN (Fleet Identification number) always compare the prices and payments of the general public incentives, especially if you are financing or leasing.

Most often fleet incentives are not compatible  with other retail incentives such as 0%, special lease rates or rebates that may be available. I usually compare both for a fleet customer and sometimes the retail incentives are better depending on the situation or vehicle.

The same thing goes if you have a Ford X-plan. X-plan is usually just a few hundred ($200 or $300) over dealer invoice and is fixed price on the vehicle invoice. Sometimes there are incentives not compatible with X-plan that may give you a better deal if you went with regular retail incentives. 

If you are an independent contractor that uses, supply  or install major brands, for  eg. you install Carrier a/c units, you may get a X-plan via Carrier etc.

Same goes if you work for a big company like Verizon or a utility or energy company such as Con Ed or even a Bank like Chase, you may get X-plan or similar incentives from automobile brands.

[fxfymn]

The other thing that drives the compact tractor pricing are the financing incentives. Kubota is offering 7 year 0% if you buy their insurance and pay about 3% more for the unit. Kind of hard to buy a fairly low hour used unit when the builders are offering those terms on new units.

[VaPatentman]

My 2005 may have a few nicks and dents but it is "CHEAPER TO KEEP HER" Turned over 148,000 today. I got 450,000 out of one of my PU's 350-4-bolt just kept running on and on. Sold it to a  guy that is still using it for jobs around his property.

[HeavyGunner]

4 hours ago, VaPatentman said:

My 2005 may have a few nicks and dents but it is "CHEAPER TO KEEP HER" Turned over 148,000 today. I got 450,000 out of one of my PU's 350-4-bolt just kept running on and on. Sold it to a  guy that is still using it for jobs around his property.

I'm with you. Run it til  the wheels fall off, replace them and run it some more. I can replace the entire drive train in my pickup for much much less than a new truck payment plus the full coverage insurance payment. There's many ways to get to the same goal and I choose to run old stuff and fix it. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by HeavyGunner
Damn autocorrect

[kscarbel2]

On 6/30/2017 at 8:16 AM, BillyT said:

KSB, is the flex considered a carcinogen in California....like everything else 😁

Billy, the Ford Flex is a modern woody*, the perfect surf mobile.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/19/business/la-fi-mo-auto-ford-flex-california-20121018

* http://www.carponents.com/content/surfs-up-with-the-woodie-one-of-americas-most-iconic-cars-176