Working Past 70: Americans can't seem to retire

[kscarbel2]

Bloomberg  /  July 11, 2017

More and more Americans are spending their golden years on the job.

Almost 19 percent of people 65 or older were working at least part-time in the second quarter of 2017, according to the U.S. jobs report released on Friday. The age group's employment/population ratio hasn't been higher in 55 years, before American retirees won better health care and Social Security benefits starting in the late 1960s.

And the trend looks likely to continue. Millennials, prepare yourselves.

Certainly baby boomers are increasingly ignoring the traditional retirement age of 65. Last quarter, 32 percent of Americans 65 to 69 were employed. Even past age 70, a growing number of seniors are declining to, or unable to, retire. Last quarter, 19 percent of 70- to 74-year-olds were working, up from 11 percent in 1994.

Older Americans are working more even as those under 65 are working less, a trend that the Bureau of Labor Statistics expects to continue. By 2024, 36 percent of 65- to 69-year-olds will be active participants in the labor market, the BLS says. That's up from just 22 percent in 1994.

A number of factors are keeping older Americans in the workforce. Many are healthier and living longer than previous generations. Some decide not to fully retire because they enjoy their jobs or just want to stay active and alert.

Others need the money. The longer you work, the easier it is to afford a comfortable retirement. Longer lives and rising health care costs have made retirement more expensive at the same time that stagnant wages and the decline of the traditional pension have made it harder to save enough.

The U.S. isn't the only place people are planning to work longer. Around the globe, workers of all ages are moving their retirement goals later and later in life.

Even after they consider themselves officially "retired," most Americans are hoping to work a little bit. According to a survey by the Employee Benefit Research Institute, or EBRI, 79 percent of U.S. workers expect to supplement their retirement income by working for pay.

There's a big problem with these plans. Just because you want to work doesn't mean you can.

When surveyed, 61 percent of American retirees say they retired sooner than they'd planned. That's more than anywhere else in the world, according to the 2017 Aegon Retirement Readiness Survey, of 16,000 people in 15 countries. Globally, 39 percent of retirees say they quit working early. Even part-time work may be unrealistic. EBRI finds that just 29 percent of retirees say they worked for pay at some point in their retirement.

Health problems may force you to quit. While longevity has generally improved along with medical care, especially for the wealthy and well educated, more recent trends in the U.S. show many Americans' health deteriorating.

And employers might not be interested in you.

"Although age discrimination has been illegal for 50 years, employers continue to see older workers as a liability," said Ruth Milkman, a sociology professor at the City University of New York. Seniors who want to extend a full-time career may be forced to take temporary jobs, for example, or work as independent contractors. "Frozen out of standard employment, older workers turn to more precarious (and less well-compensated) employment," Milkman said at a conference last month.

Rather than retire, older workers sometimes switch from traditional jobs to self-employment, according to a study released last month by the National Bureau of Economic Research that analyzed U.S. tax and survey data. In the process, they often switch occupations as well. They pay an economic price for going solo, the study finds, with average annual earnings dropping by $18,160 for older workers.

The irony is, those seniors who find it easiest to keep working- healthy, well-educated, and highly skilled people who enjoy their jobs- tend to be the least likely to need the money. Other older Americans, faced with few good job choices, often just decide to retire and and live frugally off Social Security and savings.

The share of older people in the workforce is higher than at any point since before the creation of Medicare. Even more older Americans might be out there working, though, if they were healthier and had better job prospects.

[grayhair]

19 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

Rather than retire, older workers sometimes switch from traditional jobs to self-employment, according to a study released last month by the National Bureau of Economic Research that analyzed U.S. tax and survey data. In the process, they often switch occupations as well. They pay an economic price for going solo, the study finds, with average annual earnings dropping by $18,160 for older workers.

I'd say that depends.  Depends on what you know and how you put that knowledge to work.  I'm 68 and feeling my age, and don't have the energy or the inclination to work a 40 hour week anymore.

So I took a straight-commission sales rep job.  The hard part, it is strictly commission as an agent, no salary whatsoever.  The good news, average price for the machinery I sell is $2 mil a pop and the commission rate is generous.  So, if I sell a machine then my commission will be very nice indeed.  I expect to sell 2 or 3 this year.  So, if I can make that happen, then good for me and I'll have a better retirement.  Not bad for a guy with just a high school education if I say so myself.

I write this certainly not to brag about my good fortune but rather to encourage others to make a career change if they are not satisfied with their financial situation.  I am always surprised by how many people are working at a miserable job that they don't enjoy, or for crummy pay, but won't make the effort to change their situation.   Damn, I wish I was smarter when I was young...        

 

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by grayhair

[Truck Shop]

There is the factor of most employers are happy that some people are staying in the job market that should be looking to retire. Although most wouldn't admit it. The common sense factor of older workers comes into play here. The owner of my company is constantly gripping about where did all the good drivers go.  And he is really worried about replacing the two others in the shop along with me. We are a old crew in the shop, I'm 61, Jeff is 62 and Gayle is 72. We are all farting dust.

Truck Shop

 

                                            

[HeavyGunner]

I would have to think that with 1/3 of Americans between 65-69 that are still working most are only doing so because they cannot afford to retire because they did not plan/save for retirement. 

[grayhair]

7 minutes ago, HeavyGunner said:

I would have to think that with 1/3 of Americans between 65-69 that are still working most are only doing so because they cannot afford to retire because they did not plan/save for retirement. 

Yes true but maybe a little more complicated for some of us oldsters.  Pension plans that went bust.  People laid off or fired after putting in 19 years.  Wage increases that didn't keep pace with inflation.  And then there is the cost of providing for your children.  (I put two through college.)  If you have kids then you know about parenthood expenses.  And even today for us retirees, dental and medical insurance that don't begin to cover the costs you may experience.  I've got dental work coming up.  My AMG Mercedes-driving dentist quoted me $1800. for a root canal plus another $1600. for the crown to save one of the molars I use to chew.  So that'll be a $3400. tooth.  My dental insurance will pay about 50% only.  Aagh.  What's geezer to do?  Keep on working maybe... 

 

[grayhair]

44 minutes ago, Truck Shop said:

                                          There is the factor of most employers are happy that some people are staying in the job market that should be looking to retire. Although most wouldn't admit it.

                                          The common sense factor of older workers comes into play here. The owner of my company is constantly gripping about where did all the good drivers go.  And

                                          he is really worried about replacing the two others in the shop along with me. We are a old crew in the shop, I'm 61, Jeff is 62 and Gayle is 72. We are all farting dust.

 

                                            Truck Shop

 

                                            

Yes there can be some strange dynamics in the workplace.  Many employers do value the abilities and wisdom of their older employees.  However they can become reluctant to increase salaries of those same older employees commensurate with their value to the company.  i.e. "Why should we pay old Ralph X when for that same amount we can hire two younger guys full of piss and vinegar?"  "Where's he gonna go anyway?  He is old."   Unfortunate but it is a discussion that happens a thousand time a day in hundreds of companies.  The way of the world I guess. 

[Truck Shop]

On 7/12/2017 at 11:00 AM, grayhair said:

Yes there can be some strange dynamics in the workplace.  Many employers do value the abilities and wisdom of their older employees.  However they can become reluctant to increase salaries of those same older employees commensurate with their value to the company.  i.e. "Why should we pay old Ralph X when for that same amount we can hire two younger guys full of piss and vinegar?"  "Where's he gonna go anyway?  He is old."   Unfortunate but it is a discussion that happens a thousand time a day in hundreds of companies.  The way of the world I guess. 

For us the pay isn't a problem, and at 72 Gayle can out work most guys that are thirty. But the one line that I always hear from employers is everyone is replaceable. Except they forget they are replaceable too. And I like to remind them of that, I was looking for a job when I found this one.

[MACKS]

Well if you live in NYS you don't have much choice ,66 here and still going strong,but I like to work,maybe I'll just try to slowi it down a little next year..

[Quickfarms]

I feel almost like I retired a decade ago when I switched from working for corporate America to an alternative employment situation.

I am now self employed and could never go back to working for someone.

There are advantages and disadvantages and it is not for everyone.

The deciding factor for me was when I realized that I was working about half the year to support someone else's ego.

[HeavyGunner]

I agree there are many ways to skin a cat. I would love to go do a job I enjoy more but then the reality of excellent bennies (medical, eye and dental along with a pension and a 401k) I would be giving up would leave me in a crummy place as far as health insurance etc. This is where im coming from when I say a lot of people didn't/don't plan for retirement. I'm not getting to work my dream job but the trade off is I make excellent money for our area with excellent bennies which allows me to save more and hopefully retire from this job in 10-15 years and then work my dream job when I have enough money in my in investments which takes the pressure off having to make x every month to survive. Who knows I could be doing it all wrong 😁. This is a great thread, I look hearing the diversity thats out there. 

[mowerman]

Myself I'm just waiting for those six matching numbers then you won't see much of me after that at least that's what I tell my boss I'm hoping to go at 67 but let's see what happens depends on health and determination me and the old lady like to live high and mighty don't know what I would do if my pay dropped to a dwindle...bob

[Underdog]

I've got at least 15 maybe 20 more years I want to work... might as well do something I enjoy and look cool doing it... Finally pulled the trigger and quit the company racket and got my MH on the road making money this week!!!
 

[Freightrain]

Monday my clock clicks over to 51.  Hope to have the farm(figure of speech) paid off in less then 10 yrs so that would leave me free and clear on major debt.  Not that I wanna keep working, but I'm playing it by ear.  Hope my current job is still around in 10 yrs.  This is my 31st year.  No pension, so it's all on me and my own retirement set up.  Hope it's worth a damn by then??   If those damn Russians don't meddle with it.................

[HeavyGunner]

Beautiful truck. 

[Underdog]

Rides and pulls like a dream. I'm pleasantly surprised with this truck.

[HeavyGunner]

My apologies if you've already answered this but what are the specs? Sorry for side tracking this thread KS. 

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Looks great, hope it works well for you!

[Underdog]

350-4V E6, Roadranger 10, 4.42 axle on Neway tall 24.5. Perfect. 65mph= 1500rpm

[GA_Dave]

I guess I don't follow the crowd.  Back in high school, I came up with a plan:

1. Get married while young. 

2. Have my kids while young.

3. Work a career I enjoy doing.

4. Retire as soon as financially possible.

I got married at age 19.  We have been together almost 39 years.  My three sons were born when I was age 20, 21 and 25.  They had all moved out by the time I was 48.  I landed a job in my chosen career field at the age of 26.  I retired from that career at the age of 54.  Life is good!

[HeavyGunner]

23 hours ago, mowerman said:

Myself I'm just waiting for those six matching numbers then you won't see much of me after that at least that's what I tell my boss I'm hoping to go at 67 but let's see what happens depends on health and determination me and the old lady like to live high and mighty don't know what I would do if my pay dropped to a dwindle...bob

You can't stop working bob, you have a shop to build and a dm to finish 😁

[mowerman]

Shop should be coming any time I'm waiting on permits now had to go to the Washoe County department around 4 times now with more paperwork I think I about got it covered just waiting for the permits now should be here any day [emoji4][emoji4][emoji4][emoji4]bob

[mowerman]

Getting pretty excited got the steel garage kit picked out got the cement contractor lined up fixing on breaking ground last week of August [emoji119][emoji119][emoji119]bob

[mowerman]

Workshop permits are ready to pay for and pickup[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106] got an email Friday on it didn't realize it was on there till Saturday yay I'll pick them up tomorrow and go from there... Lordy don't the wheels turn slow sometimes...bob

[grayhair]

On 7/13/2017 at 10:46 AM, HeavyGunner said:

I agree there are many ways to skin a cat. I would love to go do a job I enjoy more but then the reality of excellent bennies (medical, eye and dental along with a pension and a 401k) I would be giving up would leave me in a crummy place as far as health insurance etc. This is where im coming from when I say a lot of people didn't/don't plan for retirement. I'm not getting to work my dream job but the trade off is I make excellent money for our area with excellent bennies which allows me to save more and hopefully retire from this job in 10-15 years

Sounds like a good plan and situation.  With good pay, good bennies, paid vacation and holidays, 401K match, what's not to like?

Edited July 16, 2017 by grayhair

[HeavyGunner]

21 hours ago, grayhair said:

Sounds like a good plan and situation.  With good pay, good bennies, paid vacation and holidays, 401K match, what's not to like?

I'll start off by saying I've got it good as far as the job goes so I don't have a lot of room to complain. I was just pointing out that I am not getting to do my dream job (yes it's my choice) because it would be very hard to come close to matching my pay including all the bennies. So in a sense I'm "sacrificing" the enjoyment everyday at work so I can enjoy life later. Hopefully that makes sense.