2000CL713 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) seeing if anyone can help me with this problem. on a 2000 CL713. i have Mack camel-back susp. the problem is when i go around a turn the rear tires hop. it all started when i changed the rear spring insulators/bushings. iv had it at mack and the chassis shop and they cant fine anything wrong with it. one guy at the chassis shop said it could be the insulators/bushings are to stiff. i used the dark blue ones. i was told there are 3 difference kinds but im not sure... has anyone had this problem or heard of it or if diff pads will help?? parts that are new springs and trunnion and stand. basically everything in the rear susp wise has been replaced. had everything replaced bc the older versions are prone to cracking and wanted to get it done before that. Edited October 20, 2017 by 2000CL713 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Have you changed the tyres on the rear at all ? Are they all still the same size ? If the tyres arent matched you need to group them into the nearest size pairs and run them diagonally opposite Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000CL713 Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) tires have been changed. all new. still did the same. all the same size. have been trying to fix this problem for a year. when going straight its drives fine. just hops when turning. Edited October 20, 2017 by 2000CL713 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyGunner Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Sounds to me either differential locks are locked or maybe something is broken and jamming the gears that let the tires spin at different speeds. Quote The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by the people who vote for a living.The government can only "give" someone what they first take from another. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000CL713 Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 My truck don't have diff lock. Only power divider. Not sure if anything is broken. Doesn't show any other signs of something broken. Never been opened or anything. Just gear fluid changes. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck Shop Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Pull an axle on the back rear drive and switch the interlock in and take it through a figure eight on hard surface. Truck Shop 1 Quote One ping only Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000CL713 Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Truck Shop said: Pull an axle on the back rear drive and switch the interlock in and take it through a figure eight on hard surface. Truck Shop Can you go little more indepth on this? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck Shop Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 By removing the axle you have rendered that axle useless. If it quits hopping you know you have a drive unit that has a problem. Side gears? Power divider? Truck Shop Quote One ping only Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Truck Shop said: By removing the axle you have rendered that axle useless. If it quits hopping you know you have a drive unit that has a problem. Side gears? Power divider? Truck Shop I dont think this will help as it will just try and drive thru the power divider which isnt really a power divider If it was a diff it would happen just driving down a road with just a gentle turn If it was a power divider it would happen driving down a straight road as even the smallest of tyre changes or the like would cause any wind up to happen in a very short distance I guess you could easily prove if the power divider is working by just jacking up one wheel and rolling the one wheel with the truck in neutral When you are turning sharp do the axles track, as in do the axles step out and follow out of align like they are meant to ?? has some one changed the rubbers in the spring carriers on the axles ( we all have different names for these) and maybe these have been changed and dont allow the axles to track on a sharp turn Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmyb Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 I had the exact same thing happen, only mine was on air bag which is completely different. I ended up putting new shocks and and bolts on mine and it went away. Can you get your old insulators and try them out? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGarofalo Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Just to clarify, does this happen unloaded only or does it happen while the truck has weight on it too? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000CL713 Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 4 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said: I dont think this will help as it will just try and drive thru the power divider which isnt really a power divider If it was a diff it would happen just driving down a road with just a gentle turn If it was a power divider it would happen driving down a straight road as even the smallest of tyre changes or the like would cause any wind up to happen in a very short distance I guess you could easily prove if the power divider is working by just jacking up one wheel and rolling the one wheel with the truck in neutral When you are turning sharp do the axles track, as in do the axles step out and follow out of align like they are meant to ?? has some one changed the rubbers in the spring carriers on the axles ( we all have different names for these) and maybe these have been changed and dont allow the axles to track on a sharp turn Paul ill have to take a good look next time to see how they are tracking. never really have taken a good look since this has been happening. when you say the "spring carriers" are you talking about the insulators that are in the clam shell at the end of the springs that attach them to the rear ends? if so. then yes those rubbers where replaced with the dark blue colored ones that are poly now. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000CL713 Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Timmyb said: I had the exact same thing happen, only mine was on air bag which is completely different. I ended up putting new shocks and and bolts on mine and it went away. Can you get your old insulators and try them out? no i dont have the old ones anymore. didnt think about keeping them at the time. this was a year ago if not more. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000CL713 Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 27 minutes ago, BGarofalo said: Just to clarify, does this happen unloaded only or does it happen while the truck has weight on it too? yes both loaded and unloaded. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 10 hours ago, 2000CL713 said: ill have to take a good look next time to see how they are tracking. never really have taken a good look since this has been happening. when you say the "spring carriers" are you talking about the insulators that are in the clam shell at the end of the springs that attach them to the rear ends? if so. then yes those rubbers where replaced with the dark blue colored ones that are poly now. Yeah thats what Im talking about They have to flex a fair way so the axles track on tight turns KS I think put up a broucher some years ago of how the Macks work, if he reads this it would be good if he could share it again Anyway the Mack rear end is designed to steer and follow the front with a reduced tyre scrubbing Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Here is some previous discussion. https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/41527-camelback-dog-tracking/ Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000CL713 Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 tomm when i go to work im going to do my best to look at what the axles are doing and report back.... what are some reasons that would make the axles not track correctly when turning? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmyb Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 The whole tracking thing is from when the weight is applied to a left or right spring while cornering and it flattens out. Silly question time, is there a gap between lower insulator and spring? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000CL713 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 I'll have to look tomm if there is a gap. Is there suppose to be one empty and loaded? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmyb Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Nah it should be tight. Maybe get a small pry bar and see if either of them move. Just throwing ideas out there. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000CL713 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 Ok little update to this. Taking a few notes while driving. Been driving like this for a good bit so I have just gotten use to things I guess lol First off it doesn't hop when loaded as I thought it did before. Alot my axles track very little bit that I can tell. Nothing crazy. Just enough to notice something happening but can't be 100% sure on since to see that happening I need to be looking put back the whole time while turning which isn't the smartest thing to do lol this is in a dump truck so I can't look out my down window and see the axles. Haven't checked for play/gap in the bushing yet. One woild think since very little movement is happening that there isn't any. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 With out knowing your wheel base I would think the tracking should still be fairly easy to notice even if the wheel base was quite long Maybe just find a quiet car park and do some figure 8's and circle work At a guess my old Mack would track more than a inch when on full lock The fact that it doesnt hop when loaded I think would maybe hint that extra weight might help the to force the wheels to scrub or maybe even track better Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swishy Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) Wunder wot problems U'd have with a spread bogie drive cya §wiwshy Edited October 24, 2017 by Swishy Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 56 minutes ago, Swishy said: Wunder wot problems U'd have with a spread bogie drive cya §wiwshy Got to hard on tires! ! terry Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000CL713 Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 8 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said: With out knowing your wheel base I would think the tracking should still be fairly easy to notice even if the wheel base was quite long Maybe just find a quiet car park and do some figure 8's and circle work At a guess my old Mack would track more than a inch when on full lock The fact that it doesnt hop when loaded I think would maybe hint that extra weight might help the to force the wheels to scrub or maybe even track better Paul Not 100% sure on the wheel base. It's a cl713 tri axle dump truck with 16.5ft bed. And it would see the load is doing as you said but would what make it do it when unload? Should I swap the bushing the factory rubber ones and take the poly ones out? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/51446-hopping-issue/#findComment-383317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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