It’s all too much…..we have entered the Twilight Zone

[kscarbel2]

Christ Church in Virginia votes to remove George Washington and Robert E. Lee memorial plaques

The Miami Herald  /  October 28, 2017

For two decades, George Washington attended ChristChurch in Alexandria, Virginia.

Now, the episcopalian place of worship is saying it will take down plaques in honor of Washington and Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee, who also attended the church, because they make some “feel unsafe or unwelcome.” [???]

“The Vestry has unanimously decided that the plaques create a distraction [???] in our worship space and may create an obstacle to our identity as a welcoming church, and an impediment to our growth and to full community with our neighbors,” the church wrote in an Oct. 26 statement that was signed by 13 members of its governing council. “Accordingly, the plaques will be relocated no later than the summer of 2018.”

In its letter, ChristChurch wrote that “some choose not to return” because of the twin plaques [???], which were constructed in 1870, just two months after the death of Lee.

The plaques are made of stone and emblazoned with the words “In memory of George Washington” and “In memory of Robert E. Lee” in gold letters. They are placed on both sides of the altar.

“We understand that both Washington and Lee lived in times much different than our own*, and that each man, in addition to his public persona, was a complicated human being, and like all of us, a child of God,” the church wrote. “Today, the legacy of slavery and of the Confederacy is understood differently than it was in 1870. For some, Lee symbolizes the attempt to overthrow the Union and to preserve slavery.”

“Today our country is trying once again to come to grips with the history of slavery and the subsequent disenfranchisement of people of color. The Vestry believes that the memorial plaques to George Washington and Robert E. Lee should be considered together.”

George Washington bought pew No. 5 at ChristChurch when its doors first opened in 1773 and would attend it frequently for another 20 years.

It’s still unknown what new home the plaques will have by next summer, the church wrote, but a committee will look at different options and make a recommendation in April.

Inspired by conversation on the topic, ChristChurch also wrote that it plans to organize a group of parishioners that will play a role in “developing a narrative for ChristChurch that spotlights many of the parishioners and experiences that give us our identity.”

“This decision is a beginning,” the church wrote, “not an end.”

In August, Baltimore quietly removed four Confederate statues in the middle of the night, according to The New York Times. That happened shortly after clashes between white supremacists and anti-racist protestors rocked the town of Charlottesville, Virginia, which decided to remove a statue of Lee.

And on the Tuesday following the tension in Charlottesville, which left one dead and 19 more injured when a car hit a crowd of protestors — activists in Durham, North Carolina, tore down a Confederate statue there.

Shortly after the violence in Charlottesville, President Trump himself questioned where activists would draw the line.

“They were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee,” Trump said. “This week it's Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder is it George Washington next week and is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?”

 

* As Paul would say, nearly 150 years ago was another time and place, with different attitudes. I feel, it is absurd to attempt to apply today’s standards to people who lived 150 years ago. And, many of today’s new so-called standards are themselves not accepted by a majority. Based on the history we’re taught, these men were exceptional…..in their time period. I resent their honor being tarnished today. Based on history as I know it, the church should feel honored to have had these two distinguished gentlemen (in their time period) as parishioners.

[Nobody454]

and everyone gets a participation trophy, welcome to the new America

[carlotpilot]

I read that article`  sad state of affairs  fwiw my opinion tell these people that if you don`t like what you see get the hell out go find what suit`s your fancy. people that kowtow to the nimrods are no better than them.

[david wild]

Blame this on Obama, it's the truth even if you don't like it.

[h67st]

If America is such a terrible place why are people from other countries dying to move here? I'd be willing to bet that anyone who's offended by these plaques have skeletons in their ancestors' closets that would offend someone else.

[tjc transport]

11 hours ago, h67st said:

If America is such a terrible place why are people from other countries dying to move here? I'd be willing to bet that anyone who's offended by these plaques have skeletons in their ancestors' closets that would offend someone else.

because they want to make America into the same sheit hole they escaped from to come here.

[david wild]

That is a accurate statement, grew up in NH. no income tax, used to be low property tax, great place to live, then the ass wipes from MA. all decided to move up, they want street lights and sidewalks and schools to take their kids with handicaps, they want snow plows on call 24/7 when a snow flake may appear and a host of other social goodies, now it's a place of freebies and property taxes that people can't pay, another words NH is MA.   

[mowerman]

More balony where the magority vote doesn’t matter anymore like whaaaaaaaat is this????bob

[mackey58]

So true tjc so true

[41chevy]

Than they don't need any the money with the :slave owner" images on it.

[Mack Technician]

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 7:59 PM, kscarbel2 said:

* As Paul would say, nearly 150 years ago was another time and place, with different attitudes. I feel, it is absurd to attempt to apply today’s standards to people who lived 150 years ago. And, many of today’s new so-called standards are themselves not accepted by a majority. Based on the history we’re taught, these men were exceptional…..in their time period. I resent their honor being tarnished today. Based on history as I know it, the church should feel honored to have had these two distinguished gentlemen (in their time period) as parishioners.

These historical revisionists are shameless, but by filling the drum with water they are driving the rats to the top of the barrel.

 I keep rereading CS Lewis's book Mere Christianity and this is His scope through which I view history.......... Folks think they have achieved a new higher level of thinking, but they haven't.

Chapter 2...

"For example, one man said to me, "three hundred years ago people in England were putting witches to death. Was that what you call the Rule of Human Nature or Right Conduct?", But Surely the reason we do not execute witches is that we do not believe there are such things. If we did......if we really thought there were people going about who had sold themselves to the Devil and received supernatural powers from him in return and were using these powers to kill there neighbors or drive them mad or bring bad weather, surely we would all agree that if anyone deserved the death penalty, then these filthy quislings did. There is no difference of moral principle here: the difference is simply about matter of fact. It may be a great advance in knowledge not to believe in witches: there is no moral advance in not executing them when you do not think they are there. You would not call a man humane for ceasing to set mousetraps if he did so because he believed there were no mice in the house."

Edited November 16, 2017 by Mack Technician

[1958 F.W.D.]

I can't take it anymore. I want to clone JFK and Ronald Reagan, and genetically engineer what I feel would be a perfect President. Then, we would establish a colony on the Moon or Mars. No stupid people allowed. 

Second rule of the colony- no Detroit Diesel allowed. 

[Mack Technician]

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 8:23 PM, david wild said:

Blame this on Obama, it's the truth even if you don't like it.

Obama's administration brought us to the edge of living out the Book of Judges. Anarchy, civil unrest, division." all the people did whatever seemed right in their own eyes". He drove us so far into the left ditch that the truck flew back onto the road and is trying to correct a hard right.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Mack Technician

[h67st]

9 hours ago, 1958 F.W.D. said:

I can't take it anymore. I want to clone JFK and Ronald Reagan, and genetically engineer what I feel would be a perfect President. Then, we would establish a colony on the Moon or Mars. No stupid people allowed. 

Second rule of the colony- no Detroit Diesel allowed. 

Hey! I like the sound of a 2 stroke at full load...the world wouldn't be the same without them.

[mowerman]

hehe i am also a fan of detroit     but i did give him a like anyway.....not sure about owning one or repairing them....i really dont know anything about them but i drove a few and i did like the sound of them....plus they remind me of riding the bus to school.....my area had a few of them.good memories...bob

[mowerman]

17 hours ago, Mack Technician said:

These historical revisionists are shameless, but by filling the drum with water they are driving the rats to the top of the barrel.

 I keep rereading CS Lewis's book Mere Christianity and this is His scope through which I view history..........

Chapter 2...

"For example, one man said to me, "three hundred years ago people in England were putting witches to death. Was that what you call the Rule of Human Nature or Right Conduct?", But Surely the reason we do not execute witches is that we do not believe there are such things. If we did......if we really thought there were people going about who had sold themselves to the Devil and received supernatural powers from him in return and were using these powers to kill there neighbors or drive them mad or bring bad weather, surely we would all agree that if anyone deserved the death penalty, then these filthy quislings did. There is no difference of moral principle here: the difference is simply about matter of fact. It may be a great advance in knowledge not to believe in witches: there is no moral advance in not executing them when you do not think they are there. You would not call a man humane for ceasing to set mousetraps if he did so because he believed there were no mice in the house."

ya otherwise they woulda hung obambi and palosi,,,,long ago, before they did too much damage.instead.. we,ll see is both thier portraits in place of MR. washington . and MR lee.and of coarse as usuall..everyone should be ok with this....bob

[Vladislav]

Sorry to read one more perfect example of excessively clever people's BS.

Hope common sence will work out one more deal together with respect to the history.

[1958 F.W.D.]

12 hours ago, h67st said:

Hey! I like the sound of a 2 stroke at full load...the world wouldn't be the same without them.

You are correct, the world wouldn't be the same without them, it would be MUCH better. 

[HeavyGunner]

6 hours ago, mowerman said:

hehe i am also a fan of detroit     but i did give him a like anyway.....not sure about owning one or repairing them....i really dont know anything about them but i drove a few and i did like the sound of them....plus they remind me of riding the bus to school.....my area had a few of them.good memories...bob

Super simple bullet proof engine that sounds like nothing else. My dads first two Timberjacks had 3-53 and 4-53 in them. No turbos and not much if any muffler made you realize where the screamin' demon nick name came from. 

Edited October 31, 2017 by HeavyGunner

[KDog Trucking]

According to at least one source, George Washington was not very religious:

According to Washington biographer Edward Lengel, "He was a very moral man. He was a very virtuous man, and he watched carefully everything he did. But he certainly doesn't fit into our conception of a Christian evangelical or somebody who read his Bible every day and lived by a particular Christian theology. We can say he was not an atheist on the one hand, but on the other hand, he was not a devout Christian."

But what about he story of him kneeling in the snow at Valley Forge to pray? According to Lengel, "That's a story that was made up by [early Washington biographer] Parson Weems."

While he would attend church, Washington wouldn't take communion. According to biographer Barry Schwartz, Washington's "practice of Christianity was limited and superficial, because he was not himself a Christian. In the enlightened tradition of his day, he was a devout Deist--just as many of the clergymen who knew him suspected."

Is this revisionist history? The facts prove this to be so. I think that the author tried to rewrite history by overlooking a lot of details about his private life, his prayer journal, and even his inaugural and farewell addresses. Obama would have us believe we are no longer a Christian nation. Liberals will try to erase our Christian heritage. Washington deserves to be remembered as a great military strategist, faithful servant to the fledgling United States and a Christian.

As for Robert E. Lee, his piety, morality, and compassion were apparent to all who crossed his path. As one historian has written, “Robert Lee was one of the small company of great men in whom there is no inconsistency to be explained, no enigma to be solved. What he seemed, he was—a wholly human gentleman, the essential elements of whose positive character were two and only two, simplicity and spirituality.” 

Thanks for sharing that article kscarbel2.

[1958 F.W.D.]

10 hours ago, kamp_dogg said:

What he seemed, he was—a wholly human gentleman, the essential elements of whose positive character were two and only two, simplicity and spirituality.” 

 

REL Never wanted war. He was completely, totally and wholly against the war and with secession. He was originally offered the title of Commanding General of the US Army, however he would not accept because of his loyalty to his beloved home of Virginia. 

[BillyT]

FWD I agree,except for the Detroit diesel part I've driven many of them, and love the sound and simplicity, plus what other diesel changes its own oil!😁

[h67st]

On 10/30/2017 at 7:47 PM, 1958 F.W.D. said:

You are correct, the world wouldn't be the same without them, it would be MUCH better. 

FWD, you really have it out for DD. Did one slobber on your new blacktop driveway or something?

[1958 F.W.D.]

13 hours ago, h67st said:

FWD, you really have it out for DD. Did one slobber on your new blacktop driveway or something?

No but as a matter of fact, Dad brought the Hahn to the town Halloween parade last week and parked it alongside the house and of course it marked it's territory on the street......

[kscarbel2]

It’s all too much…..we have entered the Twilight Zone

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Federal court rules World War I memorial cross must be torn down

Back in 1925, the American Legion erected a memorial in Bladensburg, Maryland, to honor the memory of 49 men who perished during World War I.

The 40-foot tall memorial became known as the "Peace Cross." 

In 2014, the American Humanist Association -- a group that believes in "being good without a god" -- filed a lawsuit alleging the cross-shaped memorial is unconstitutional and demanding it be demolished, altered, or removed. 

They alleged the cross carries "an inherently religious message and creates the unmistakable appearance of honoring only Christian servicemen."

On Wednesday, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals agreed and ruled the historic memorial must be torn down -- all because the Bladensburg Memorial is in the shape of a cross. 

The Fourth Circuit said the memorial excessively entangles the government in religion because the cross is the “core symbol of Christianity” and “breaches” the wall separating church and state.

Writing separately, Chief Judge Gregory wrote, “This Memorial stands in witness to the VALOR, ENDURANCE, COURAGE, and DEVOTION of the forty-nine residents of Prince George’s County, Maryland ‘who lost their lives in the Great War for the liberty of the world.’  I cannot agree that a monument so conceived and dedicated and that bears such witness violates the letter or spirit of the very Constitution these heroes died to defend.”

The American Legion could appeal directly to the Supreme Court.

"Today's decision sets dangerous precedent by completely ignoring history, and it threatens removal and destruction of veterans memorials across America," First Liberty Institute attorney Hiram Sasser said. 

First Liberty Institute and the Jones Day law firm are representing the American Legion in their fight.

“This memorial has stood in honor of local veterans for almost 100 years and is lawful under the First Amendment,” Jones Day attorney Michael Carvin said. “To remove it would be a tremendous dishonor to the local men who gave their lives during The Great War.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/towering-cross-shaped-monument-on-public-land-is-unconstitutional-court-rules/2017/10/18/b26e4afe-5b47-11e7-9b7d-14576dc0f39d_story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/29/us/politics/peace-cross-maryland-court-first-amendment.html

.