Pierce - Ford Power Stroke

[tjc transport]

1 hour ago, Lmackattack said:

It likely moves along well because it has no emission crap bolted to it. ?? I don't think military or emergency trucks come with EPA crap on them?

 

yes they do have all that epa crap on them. 

[1958 F.W.D.]

2 hours ago, Lmackattack said:

It likely moves along well because it has no emission crap bolted to it. ?? I don't think military or emergency trucks come with EPA crap on them?

 

Wrong answer. Fire apparatus is indeed exempt from emissions controls, however engine manufacturers will not shut down their production lines for a small percentage of units. 

[Jamaican Bulldog]

1 hour ago, kscarbel2 said:

he current AVL-designed 6.7 has delivered good service for most operators.

Who or what is AVL?

[Maxidyne]

With the newer engines like Ford's Powerstroke, there never was a pre-emmissions version.

[kscarbel2]

30 minutes ago, Jamaican Bulldog said:

Who or what is AVL?

AVL is an Austrian contract designer (you may have heard of UK-based Ricardo, another one).

AVL designed the current Ford 6.7L Powerstroke, and does a great deal of (behind the scenes) work for auto and truck makers around the world.

https://www.avl.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVL_(engineering_company)

 

[Nobody454]

3 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

Particularly compared with the problematic 6.0-litre Powerstroke (Navistar VT365 with HEUI fuel injection), the current AVL-designed 6.7 has delivered good service for most operators.

That said, I'd rather have the 6.7L Cummins ISB.

As I said before, if one could order a Ford pickup with the Cummins ISB and Allison 1000 Series transmission, you'd be good to go.

given time, i think most 6.7 fords will fail due to the fuel system. just my 2 cents. the pressure and the tolerances necessary for the emissions bulls&*t might work in a lab with perfectly clean non bio-fuel, but in the real world I don't think it does...And again I am (or was) a ford guy

And I agree 100% about the cummins with an allison in a pickup. Whoever built it would be king of the hill, hands down

[kscarbel2]

25 minutes ago, Nobody454 said:

given time, i think most 6.7 fords will fail due to the fuel system. just my 2 cents. the pressure and the tolerances necessary for the emissions bulls&*t might work in a lab with perfectly clean non bio-fuel, but in the real world I don't think it does...And again I am (or was) a ford guy

And I agree 100% about the cummins with an allison in a pickup. Whoever built it would be king of the hill, hands down

I couldn't buy a full-size pickup now.

I've never been sold on GM....they don't hold up to commercial use.

FCA is finally going to introduce a new pickup line-up, but a financially strapped company will be looking to save a dime from A-to-Z (I would), so I'd sadly avoid Ram (aka. Dodge) despite the superb Cummins ISB and 3.0 VM Motori.

With Ford, they've lost their direction in styling, and particularly in engineering and reliability.

These three brands all throw excuses at the customer, have you in and out of dealers that lack the manufacturer's support to solve your problem because corporate hasn't actually got it figured out yet due to excessively lean staffing.

The Toyota Tundra is old, with poor fuel economy.

The Nissan Titan, with its copy styling (nicknamed the Ramverado), is too painful to look at, and has gas guzzling gasoline engines and the unimpressive dated Cummins 5.0 V8.

 

[Red Horse]

4 hours ago, Nobody454 said:

ford 6.7 is JUNK. And I'm a Ford guy.  68000 miles on a 2011, needs high pressure fuel pump, and new injectors, to the tune of $9000. GM uses the same junk fuel pump. I guess there is no good choice any more with emissions 

 

Wow- I guess if I was faced with that bill I too would not be too happy.  I'm not a fan of V-8 diesels but how many of these things are on the road now??  Many thousands I would think.  And offering them in 750's up to 37,000 lb GVW with a 250,000 mile warranty is putting it on the line.

What did your dealer tell you? By the way- buddy of mine has a new GMC 2500 on order after dealing with one thing after another on his 2014 and he told me GM has a hold on all duramaxes-no reason given.

[Nobody454]

9 hours ago, Red Horse said:

Wow- I guess if I was faced with that bill I too would not be too happy.  I'm not a fan of V-8 diesels but how many of these things are on the road now??  Many thousands I would think.  And offering them in 750's up to 37,000 lb GVW with a 250,000 mile warranty is putting it on the line.

What did your dealer tell you? By the way- buddy of mine has a new GMC 2500 on order after dealing with one thing after another on his 2014 and he told me GM has a hold on all duramaxes-no reason given.

out of warranty, so didn't bother with the dealer...but everything i've heard says they will deny warranty repair even on brand new trucks with 10,000 miles and call it "fuel contamination"

[Maxidyne]

VW's had similar low pressure fuel pump failure problems with the TDIs. SOP for VW dealers has been to replace the whole fuel system at a cost of around $10,000, but some TDI drivers found they can usually get by with replacing the failed pump and filters and thoroughly flushing out the rest of the fuel system. First they blamed it on misfueling with gas and put an insert in the fuel filler. The failures persisted so VW finally gave in and provided an extended warranty on the fuel pumps of the 2009-12 TDIs. That's now been superceded by VW's buyback of over 300,000 TDIs and an expensive emissions recall for those TDIs that remain on or return to the road. TDIs that get the emissions recall get an extended warranty on the whole fuel and emissions system as well as the engine.

[fxfymn]

Every product will have its share of failures and the Dmax and 6.7 are no exceptions. But, there are hundreds of thousands on the road with most delivering good service. I have owned Dmax's since 2001 and with the exception of a gremlin filled 2011 they have all been reliable. The 2011 was the first with new electronics and it would throw odd messages out and had a failed transmission control unit that was done under warranty.

A friend had the bottom end come out of his 2011 6.7 at 48K miles, but my view is one failure doesn't condemn the entire line.

34 minutes ago, Nobody454 said:

out of warranty, so didn't bother with the dealer...but everything i've heard says they will deny warranty repair even on brand new trucks with 10,000 miles and call it "fuel contamination"

I would take the truck to the dealer even if the warranty has expired. I don't know about Ford, but GM will extend the warranty if they have had continuing issues with a part or system and they have fixed things for me for free that I didn't know about. Also, the fuel system should be a covered emissions system part and as such is covered under the federal warranty requirements which exceed Ford's warranty.

[Maxidyne]

Yup, check for unpublicized warranty extensions in the TSBs, etc.. Often the manufacturer doesn't publicize them and unless you're a big fleet, in which case the parts seem to magically arrive whether needed or not- I remember brand new doors arriving for the International Transtar cabovers that were never used, and a whole collection of new body panels and doors for the badly rusting 3rd generation Econolines. 

[kscarbel2]

 

[1958 F.W.D.]

I bet that thing is slower than molasses moving uphill in January

[tjc transport]

i would not put money on that. 

a friend has a F750 with the 6.7 and a 3500 gallon oil recovery tank. 

it is a runner, both empty or loaded. 

[1958 F.W.D.]

16 hours ago, tjc transport said:

i would not put money on that. 

a friend has a F750 with the 6.7 and a 3500 gallon oil recovery tank. 

it is a runner, both empty or loaded. 

Does it carry 1000 feet of supply hose, a few hundred feet of various sized attack hoses, several thousand pounds of a pump and pump transfer case, several more thousands of pounds of equipment carried in a custom-fabricated body and 6 or 8 fully dressed out firefighters? Like I said.....Slower than molasses uphill in January. 

There's a reason why those of us who know what we are doing in the firetruck bizness would spec an ISL Cummins set high, if not an ISX for a chassis like the one shown. 

[1958 F.W.D.]

On 11/21/2017 at 6:32 PM, ff6cav said:

Fire apparatus are not exempt from emissions rules, unfortunately.

Actually, they are. But the engine Mfr's have repeatedly told the Fire Chassis guys "We are not stopping our production lines to re-tool for a few hundred units a year."