seal choice and bearing preload.

[tom1361]

hello everyone, looking for some input on rear wheel bearing seal choices. i took everything apart this past weekend and much to my surprise the truck had to different seals. i was told by cooks brothers here in northeast pa. that both type seals would work just fine. i was just wondering if the green seal would be better in any way because it's taller? oh , and yes the seal section has been ripped out of the green one that's why the hole looks larger. secondly, what is the proper way to preload the bearings and the torque specs for the axle nuts for this set up? 1962 b67 single axle ......rad 512 rear .....4 1/8 axle nuts ....16.50 x 7 inch brakes. i appreciate any suggestions. thanks, tomvb.

 

 

 

 

 

[Maddog13407]

any ''wedding band'' rings on the axle? usually there are about a half dozen different seals that will work. all depends whats there. sometimes someone puts a 2 piece seal or wedding band on if something is worn on the axle tube

[davehummell]

Tell tom or jeff you don't want the old style stemco's they will leak. Try a national seal they work real well if your seal surface is just a little worn . Look at the paperwork in the seal box it should tell you all you need to know how to preload bearings and torque on nuts.

[h67st]

When I was turning wrenches, we didn't use the specs. We would tighten down the first nut while slowly spinning the hub (to seat the bearings and races) and then back it off a little. Then turn it just until all the slack is gone. Then crank the locknut down with a 24" breaker bar, if you lean into it pretty good that's tight enough. In 18 years of putting wheels on, I never had one come back (and don't say that's because they went off the side of a hill).

[mrsmackpaul]

I reckon the green seal is better, however I think either are correct 

I have s seal leaking in the ass end at the moment and a seal like the red one turned up from Mack 

 

So I dunno 

 

Paul

[BGarofalo]

I only use stemco guardian seals anymore. They last a long time. As far as torque here is a standard procedure. 

[superdog405]

I run and maintain a small fleet of 7 dumps, I only use stemco voyagers . Easy install and the turn inside its self design lasts longer than the traditional seal that rides on the spindle. But they do go for about $40 apiece . As far as torque , I've always cranked them down tight and backed them off, just like h67st said.

[h67st]

17 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

I reckon the green seal is better, however I think either are correct 

I have s seal leaking in the ass end at the moment and a seal like the red one turned up from Mack 

 

So I dunno 

 

Paul

This is not the forum for medical problems.

[Keith S]

The pre-load is surprisingly high, 100+ ft-lb. I'll be doing mine in a few weeks so I can update this post. Don't forget to check the axle tube wear surface. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/emack/albums/72157685006281336

[Keith S]

Finally got around to setting preload on the rear bearings. From the Mack Brakes manual:

1. While turning drum/wheel preload adjusting nut to 200 lb-ft. - yes, 200 lb-ft!
2. Back off nut one full-turn
3. While turning drum/wheel tighten adjusting nut to 50 lb-ft.
4. If you can, check for at least 0.001 in/out movement of drum/wheel
5. If the pin on the nut does not align with a hole in the anti-rotate-washer thing, loosen the nut until it aligns
6. Tighten the lock-nut to 300-400 lb-ft.

[fjh]

IMO either seal pictured is a good seal national and c/r are descent seals The stemco voyager seal is also a good seal !

 And I don't want to start a pissing match here however, IMO again, if your offered a stemco two piece turn and run! Over the years this seal went from my favorite to my most hated seal,  Now a days just an observation ,  if I find a leaking wheel seal on a unit  7 times out of 10 its a stemco two peice I Won't use one unless I'm Desperate ! 

Just An opinion!

[Freightrain]

I used a stemco 2 pc on my truck a few years ago.  All I could get my hands on in a pinch.  Still dry,   I've heard horror stories about them, but with the little mileage mine gets I hope it lasts my lifetime.

I did the bearing like I do my pickup.   Crank it tight while spinning, back off, then snug it up til the lock ring finds a hole.

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Freightrain

[Vladislav]

My WW2 military Mack manual tells turn the nut tight, try spinning the wheel than  turn tight again. After that make the nut loose getting 3 notches back. That's about 1/6 of the turn on the particular truck.

From my practice (with cars and small trucks) when you set the 1st nut you may feel slack. But after you put and tight up the lock nut it gets away. The matter of the event is when you force the wheel to move it forces the 1st nut (without the lock nut at the time) to go out. And it stops against the spindle thread. But when you put the 2nd nut tight side by side to the 1st one the latter is forsed to go in. As long as the tread slack allows. It's sure small but usually enough to drop your original slack to zero. So I use to set the slack a bit larger than I would prefere and later find it tiny when the lock nut is on.

[mrgumby]

Been using stemco 2 piece grit guard for many years with no failures at all. I like the 2 piece because we run many old trucks with pitting on the seal surface all you need is the correct seal installer and good to go.  Just my opinion yours may vary

[Ezrider]

i prefer the 2 piece seals. the stemco 2 peice grit guards mentioned above are a very good seal. 

 

here is a video i did recently on some tips and tricks for doing seals bearings and races

 

[mrsmackpaul]

strange how we all have a different way of doing the job for the same out come 
Stole the Princess old deep fryer many years ago and its just got gear oil in it to gently heat the bearings and the I use the freezer to shrink thinks and its amazing what then just drops together with out using a hammer at all 

Paul

[Keith S]

Umm... Unless there's something new in the last 40 years, the bearing race is supposed to spin on the spindle.

[carlotpilot]

1 hour ago, Keith S said:

Umm... Unless there's something new in the last 40 years, the bearing race is supposed to spin on the spindle.

Are you real sure about that?

[Keith S]

For roller wheel bearings (ball or cylindrical): The idea behind the inner-race (not the outer race) rotating on the spindle is to increase bearing life - it does not rotate fast, but the rotating inner race is another bearing surface. If it didn't/doesn't rotate, the rollers would quickly wear the bottom of the inner race. However, the rotating inner race can/does cause wear on the bottom of the spindle - normally the top of the spindle has very little (if any) wear. You'll almost always see minor wear on the bottom 1/3rd of the spindle - that's where the load is.

Unless specified as a press fit, putting a few punch marks on the spindle does not make the bearing a press fit, it just messes up that precision-ground bearing surface. The manufacturer spent a lot of money machining that surface.

[hatcity]

Nice video EZ....like the porn sound track!

[Ezrider]

9 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

strange how we all have a different way of doing the job for the same out come 
Stole the Princess old deep fryer many years ago and its just got gear oil in it to gently heat the bearings and the I use the freezer to shrink thinks and its amazing what then just drops together with out using a hammer at all 

Paul

this time of the year i have a deep freeze right outside the door...lol i have used a hotplate to heat parts before. the deep fryer is a good idea. would take a pretty big one to put a truck hub in though.....lol 

 

6 hours ago, Keith S said:

For roller wheel bearings (ball or cylindrical): The idea behind the inner-race (not the outer race) rotating on the spindle is to increase bearing life - it does not rotate fast, but the rotating inner race is another bearing surface. If it didn't/doesn't rotate, the rollers would quickly wear the bottom of the inner race. However, the rotating inner race can/does cause wear on the bottom of the spindle - normally the top of the spindle has very little (if any) wear. You'll almost always see minor wear on the bottom 1/3rd of the spindle - that's where the load is.

Unless specified as a press fit, putting a few punch marks on the spindle does not make the bearing a press fit, it just messes up that precision-ground bearing surface. The manufacturer spent a lot of money machining that surface.

have never heard that the inner race is supposed to spin on the spindle and considering the spindle is not considered a wear item and the bearing is. i am pretty sure that is not how its designed to work and i have taken many apart that had no wear marks from the inner race spinning on the spindle. either way its something iv done many times over the years and never had a failure caused by it. by putting a few punch marks in it your only raising the surface a very small amount in a very small area around the punch mark my thought that its doing less damage to a precision ground surface than the inner race spinning on the spindle. but ill regardless you don't have to do it if you don't want to.

5 hours ago, hatcity said:

Nice video EZ....like the porn sound track!

 i thought it was more of elevator music than porn music.....lol finding good music that's what your looking for that is copyright free can be a struggle sometimes....lol i actually wasn't that happy with that music choice but sometimes you just start spending to much time on something and say f-it good enough it was more just for background than being a focus anyway....lol 

[Freightrain]

I can see how/why the inner race "could" turn.  You put preload on the bearing with the nut(against the inner race), but the inner race is not really held in place by anything.  It surely does not "spin", but could move if the preload was light enough.  In all my years of it, I have never seen a spindle with heat damage/scoring from that inner race spinning at high speed.  It is always just a nice slip fit.

The only time you run into problems is when the bearing fails and purposely spins the inner race and welds itself to the spindle.  That is when it gets ugly.

[keg1]

On March 7, 2018 at 3:16 PM, mrsmackpaul said:

strange how we all have a different way of doing the job for the same out come 
Stole the Princess old deep fryer many years ago and its just got gear oil in it to gently heat the bearings and the I use the freezer to shrink thinks and its amazing what then just drops together with out using a hammer at all 

Paul

I've tried the heat and freezer thing a few times and never had much luck, still had to use the hammer. Maybe heat wasn't hot enough and freezer not cold enough.

[Keith S]

I've never tried the heat/cold thing with wheel bearings. I once did the freezer thing with pressed in piston pins - took too much time for lubing, aligning...etc to do it again.

I've never seen an axle spindle that didn't show any sign of wear on the bottom. Maybe not enough to catch a fingernail, but enough to measure; less than 0.001"

[Vladislav]

What kind of hub bearings preload are you talking about guys? There's no preload, there's slack.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Vladislav