Big Oil Announces plans to "Kill the electric truck"

[KDog Trucking]

I found this article on big oil and biodiesel execs getting together to decide how best to kill the electric truck.

As you may have heard, most OEM's have been introducing electric versions of their semis, they can go up to 400 miles on a 30 min charge and supposedly go 1 million miles between maintenance intervals. Tesla reports 3 trucks can be convoyed and controlled by a single operator - eliminating the need for each to have it's own driver.

When asked about electricification, big oil exec's responded:

"Another type of disaster—not natural but instead policy-driven—is the political momentum driving electrification. The consensus on the panel was that the liquid fuels industries must mend their differences and work toward a larger goal of exploiting the benefits that liquid fuels offer and exposing the myth of zero emissions vehicles."

http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/articles/2516262/big-oil-biodiesel-join-forces-to-combat-electrification

 

 

 

[Mack Technician]

They make some good points. If you let the free market decide viability the jury will come in with a sure verdict. If you put an Obama into action with the usual Dem-Lib subsidies package...........

[Red Horse]

1 hour ago, Mack Technician said:

They make some good points. If you let the free market decide viability the jury will come in with a sure verdict. If you put an Obama into action with the usual Dem-Lib subsidies package...........

For sure-everything looks good when you step up to the cash register with your EBT card!

[Mack Technician]

It will probobly be one of those ironic exchanges like we have at work, post-Boiler MACT. 

Can't have a coal power boiler system so forced to spend 25 million to replace it with a Natural Gas boiler................  Then get rid of all of our Gas powered forklifts and replace them with coal powered battery forklifts.  Every time they plug the lift in it is sucking nook off a coal fire in the Weston Power Plant. 

[KDog Trucking]

I understand, and that's  a good example of gov't stupidity...because electricity has to come from somewhere...and most of it around here is coal.

It's not actually zero emissions that seems to be driving the market towards electrification, ironically it's all the exhaust after treatment junk and the desire for a more reliable lower maintenance engine (post 2007 emissions controls).

Tesla says you will be able to convoy 3 electric trucks together (with a single driver). That kind of innovation will really kill jobs.

I haven't really seen anything (yet) that says Trump will be overturning CAFE standards, and phase 2 seems to be in the works, which will require more emissions reductions. If it does in fact go through, we'd be looking at most passenger cars getting 50 mpg by 2027.

 

[RowdyRebel]

Watched a commercial for a "plug-in hybrid" car on TV...guy pulls into his garage, walks over to the special cord hanging on the wall, and plugged it into the car.

I wonder if he factored in the cost of an electrician coming out and wiring everything up into the cost of ownership...or if he's factoring the higher electric bill he's paying when he calculates how much it costs him to drive per mile.  Sure, you pay $100/month less on gasoline...but it costs you $200/month more on your electric bill keeping that stupid thing charged up & ready to go.

[Mack Technician]

34 minutes ago, RowdyRebel said:

Watched a commercial for a "plug-in hybrid" car on TV...guy pulls into his garage, walks over to the special cord hanging on the wall, and plugged it into the car.

I wonder if he factored in the cost of an electrician coming out and wiring everything up into the cost of ownership...or if he's factoring the higher electric bill he's paying when he calculates how much it costs him to drive per mile.  Sure, you pay $100/month less on gasoline...but it costs you $200/month more on your electric bill keeping that stupid thing charged up & ready to go.

We got hit with one of those "catch 22's". After we got the smart $$$ charge stations set up the operators complained the machines that deep cycled gave off a smell that was noxious. No options.......... the factory had to install an exhaust system at every charge area, big enough to drive a lift into. Major undertaking when you consider the value of real estate inside the facility.  

[RowdyRebel]

Makes you wonder what the pencil-pushers were thinking.

[j hancock]

Sometimes old and crappy is actually way better than new and improved.

[HeavyGunner]

6 minutes ago, j hancock said:

Sometimes old and crappy is actually way better than new and improved.

It usually is. I’ve been pissed ever since the epa forced Cummins hand into screwing with the 12 valve Cummins. We had big, heavy 3/4 and 1 ton pickups getting low to mid 20’s on the highway and then they screwed with them and mileage was affected. I would love to see it quantified somehow the difference in total pollution between “cleaner emissions” pickup that gets 13 mpg and an old “dirty truck” that gets 24 mpg. I think the latter would put out less total emissions when all things are considered. 

[KDog Trucking]

According to the government, 100 cars today produce the same amount of PM (particulate matter) and NOx as 1 car prior to 1970.

For HD trucks, the amount of PM generated per 100,000 miles was 470 pounds before EPA standards were enacted. Today, the amount is measured in grams. So that is something like a 4,000 to 1 ratio of emissions before and after EPA/CAFE standards were enacted. 

So, while crappy and old ran without problems, it doesn't work anymore with a population approaching 10 billion globally. 

I think there is an unseen cost to electric, however the upside for OTR trucks is 1 million miles in between major maintenance, such as they are claiming on the Tesla trucks.

I think the best part of automated trucks/cars is that *hopefully* my kids will never have to get a drivers permit.

 

[41chevy]

Plus the other advantages on the dollar side. No longer a need for DOT and police highway patrols, parking enforcement, plain old fashioned traffic cops, school crossing guards, bus drivers and bus monitors for school buses and transit, cab drivers, traffic courts and DWI programs. . which is good for it eliminates a ton of lawyers, parole officers and counselors. The technology is there to leave only the EMT's and fire fighters to ride to the scene and not have to drive. Komatsu is working on GPS controlled farm equipment which will be easily adapted to construction equipment including dump and mixers I would guess, only need a laborer instead of an operator, big cost saving on wages, benefits, health care costs and pensions .  Sorry I probably won't live to see it all in action, sounds real cool!

[j hancock]

I can't totally wrap my head around all that AI, machine learning, blockchain, etc. has in store for world, but there will always be cockroaches and lawyers.

[KDog Trucking]

This will be the technological revolution that eliminates millions of jobs. 

After that, we might have to go to the 3-day work week. 

[Red Horse]

You guys have it all wrong-plenty of jobs will remain-starting with lawyers, all the staffing to man the court system and probably quite a few in the trades to BUILD the new court facilities that will be needed.  

[RowdyRebel]

12 hours ago, 41chevy said:

Plus the other advantages on the dollar side. No longer a need for DOT and police highway patrols, parking enforcement, plain old fashioned traffic cops, school crossing guards, bus drivers and bus monitors for school buses and transit, cab drivers, traffic courts and DWI programs. . which is good for it eliminates a ton of lawyers, parole officers and counselors. The technology is there to leave only the EMT's and fire fighters to ride to the scene and not have to drive. Komatsu is working on GPS controlled farm equipment which will be easily adapted to construction equipment including dump and mixers I would guess, only need a laborer instead of an operator, big cost saving on wages, benefits, health care costs and pensions .  Sorry I probably won't live to see it all in action, sounds real cool!

Farm tractors have had GPS systems for years, helping to make straighter & tighter rows by taking over steering control across the fields, as well as variable population planters, which after mapping out soil types in the field, will automatically adjust for seed placement to optimize the number of plants per acre for the different soil types and drainage within the fields.  Same with the sprayers applying fertilizers, herbicides, and insecticides.  Once a farmer has it all set up, all he needs to do is ride along and monitor things to make sure everything is working as it should.

[41chevy]

The Komatsu system needs only a laptop or smart phone to monitor it, farmer doesn't even have to be in the same state, or for that matter even need to be a farmer just a techie

[HeavyGunner]

1 hour ago, 41chevy said:

The Komatsu system needs only a laptop or smart phone to monitor it, farmer doesn't even have to be in the same state, or for that matter even need to be a farmer just a techie

I was at a meeting close to 20 years ago and the boys at TopCon said then they had the technology for unmanned farm equipment. The only hangup was over who would be liable if joe farmer forgot to put in the gps of his unmanned tractor a road, power pole etc.. 

[41chevy]

The Komatsu system is pretty much the same system with sensors instead of wire the the Robo Mowers use. Supposed to be able to sense grade, soil density, moisture, shade/ sun  and seed spacing. Sounds to me like a massive F up ready made. So a signal loss, EMT pulse and nobody knows how to work the equipment and starves. . .

[RowdyRebel]

16 hours ago, 41chevy said:

The Komatsu system is pretty much the same system with sensors instead of wire the the Robo Mowers use. Supposed to be able to sense grade, soil density, moisture, shade/ sun  and seed spacing. Sounds to me like a massive F up ready made. So a signal loss, EMT pulse and nobody knows how to work the equipment and starves. . .

An EMP would render most every newer piece of machinery a heap of scrap, anyway...and the older iron (pre-electronics) would only serve useful for as long as the fuel supply lasted.  Nobody will be able to pump it from their tanks, no trucks to deliver, no refineries producing, and no rigs pumping.  Even the pipelines would likely shut down without their computers monitoring and controlling the flow.  'Bout the only people who wouldn't be up a creek would be the Amish.

[Mack Technician]

I never laugh at those Amish....one EMP and the "Meek shall inherit the Earth". We'll be left with really good jelly and well built furniture. 

[41chevy]

1 hour ago, Mack Technician said:

I never laugh at those Amish....one EMP and the "Meek shall inherit the Earth". We'll be left with really good jelly and well built furniture. 

and beards.

Two members here were caught on the BMT Spy Cam prepping for the event..

 

[HeavyGunner]

3 hours ago, Mack Technician said:

I never laugh at those Amish....one EMP and the "Meek shall inherit the Earth". We'll be left with really good jelly and well built furniture. 

I have a funny anecdote that goes along with this⬆️.  Years ago I was at the local co-op and everytime one of the salesmen would help figure out the Hutterite farm boss's needs for his crops his 20 something kid would then go "you know what I'd do...." and he'd never really ad anything new or useful to the conversation. He just always wanted to look and seem far more important than he was. One day at the co-op some of the usual coffee drinkers were having conversations about terrorist attacks on our power grid and how that'd change things in in the US. Well Mr. Mouthy Armchair Quarter back did his usual butt in at the end but this time instead of just cherry picking the best thoughts from everyone else he came up with his own genius thought. He said if we lost the power grid that the Hutterites would rule the US and have everyone by the balls. Of course that pissed me off and I asked him how do you figure?  He said they grown a lot of their own food and I was quick to bring up that they don't do things the old fashioned way like the Amish so they are as reliant on technology as the rest of us so life wouldn't be just peachy as he thinks. He then tells me that we'd (all non Hutterites) would be at their mercy to buy beef, grain etc but I cut him mid sentence and said he was wrong. He started to get mouthy again when I cut him off and said aren't you guys conscious objectors? He said yeah so? I said so you guys don't own guns right? He nodded and I said good then if an apocalyptic event happens he'll be working for me because I've got a safe full of guns and plenty of ammunition they says you'll do whatever the hell I say. He didn't have much of response after that. Everyone in got a good chuckle out of it.  

[HeavyGunner]

2 hours ago, 41chevy said:

and beards.

Two members here were caught on the BMT Spy Cam prepping for the event..

 

I heard they were discussing buying an old Detroit powered Oliver for its simplicity  

 

[Mack Technician]

11 hours ago, HeavyGunner said:

I have a funny anecdote that goes along with this⬆️.  Years ago I was at the local co-op and everytime one of the salesmen would help figure out the Hutterite farm boss's needs for his crops his 20 something kid would then go "you know what I'd do...." and he'd never really ad anything new or useful to the conversation. He just always wanted to look and seem far more important than he was. One day at the co-op some of the usual coffee drinkers were having conversations about terrorist attacks on our power grid and how that'd change things in in the US. Well Mr. Mouthy Armchair Quarter back did his usual butt in at the end but this time instead of just cherry picking the best thoughts from everyone else he came up with his own genius thought. He said if we lost the power grid that the Hutterites would rule the US and have everyone by the balls. Of course that pissed me off and I asked him how do you figure?  He said they grown a lot of their own food and I was quick to bring up that they don't do things the old fashioned way like the Amish so they are as reliant on technology as the rest of us so life wouldn't be just peachy as he thinks. He then tells me that we'd (all non Hutterites) would be at their mercy to buy beef, grain etc but I cut him mid sentence and said he was wrong. He started to get mouthy again when I cut him off and said aren't you guys conscious objectors? He said yeah so? I said so you guys don't own guns right? He nodded and I said good then if an apocalyptic event happens he'll be working for me because I've got a safe full of guns and plenty of ammunition they says you'll do whatever the hell I say. He didn't have much of response after that. Everyone in got a good chuckle out of it.  

Good thought, I pretty much like the Mennonites in our neighborhood so I think when the apocalypse comes I may offer "protection for berry jelly". The Jalapeno jelly is crazy good, but when the system fails I may not be able to get antacids.

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Mack Technician