A new view for gun control

[41chevy]

And what ever else the financial institutions feel you do not need to own.  See we do not need the Congress, Senate or even diplomats, all we need is a few angry, self rightous Bankers. . . Good read from the New York Times

How Banks Can Control Gun Sales if Washington Won’t.

 

For the past year, chief executives have often talked about the new sense of moral responsibility that corporations have to help their communities and confront social challenges even when Washington won’t.

In the aftermath of the school shooting in Parkland, Fla., that killed 17 students and staff members — and at a time when Washington shows little interest in limiting the sales of assault weapons — there’s a real opportunity for the business community to fill the void and prove that all that talk about moral responsibility isn’t hollow.

Here’s an idea.

What if the finance industry — credit card companies like Visa, Mastercard and American Express; credit card processors like First Data; and banks like JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo — were to effectively set new rules for the sales of guns in America?

Collectively, they have more leverage over the gun industry and the NRA than any lawmaker. It wouldn’t be hard for them to take a stand, with out the issues of legislation and opposition hindering it.

PayPal, Square, Stripe and Apple Pay announced years ago that they would not allow their services to be used for the sale of firearms.

“We do not believe permitting the sale of firearms on our platform is consistent with our values or in the best interests of our customers,” a spokesman for Square told me.

The big financial firms don’t even have to go that far.

For example, Visa, which published a 71-page paper in 2016 espousing its “corporate responsibility,” could easily change its terms of service to say that it won’t do business with retailers that sell assault weapons, high-capacity magazines and bump stocks, which make semiautomatic rifles fire faster. (Even the National Rifle Association has said it would support tighter restrictions on bump stocks.)

If Mastercard were to do the same, assault weapons would be eliminated from virtually every firearms store in America because otherwise the sellers would be cut off from the credit card system.

There is precedent for credit card issuers to ban the purchase of completely legal products. Just this month, JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup and Bank of America banned the use of their cards to buy Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

To be clear: Those three banks won’t let you use your credit card to buy Bitcoin, but they will happily let you use it to buy an AR-15-style semiautomatic rifle — the same kind of gun used in mass shootings in Parkland; Newtown, Conn.; San Bernardino, Calif.; Las Vegas; and Sutherland Springs, Tex.

Visa, oddly enough, is the card of choice of the N.R.A.: There is actually an N.R.A.-branded Visa card issued by First Bankcard, a division of First National Bank of Omaha. And Mastercard proudly announced last year that it was the branded card for Cabela’s, an outdoor gear megastore with a seemingly limitless assault-weapon catalog.

Visa spokesmen did not reply to several emails seeking comment. A spokesman for Mastercard sent a boilerplate statement that expressed “disgust with recent events, including last week in Florida.”

“Our payments network is governed by standards that have been established over time,” the statement said. “Chief among these is that we do not and will not permit merchants to engage in unlawful activity on our network.” He said the company would continue to talk to customers and lawmakers about its policies.

If Visa and Mastercard are unwilling to act on this issue, the credit card processors and banks that issue credit cards could try. Jamie Dimon, chief executive of JPMorgan Chase, which issues credit cards and owns a payment processor, has talked about how he and his bank have “a moral obligation but also a deeply vested interest” in helping “solve pressing societal challenges.” This is your chance, Mr. Dimon.

And here’s a variation on the same theme: What if the payment processing industry’s biggest customers — companies like McDonald’s, Starbucks, Apple, Amazon, AT&T, CVS and others that regularly talk about “social responsibility” — collectively pressured the industry to do it? There’s a chance that some of the payment processors would stop handling gun sales. Perhaps their voices would help push one of the banks to step out and lead?

Is all of this a pipe dream? Maybe, but I spent the last 72 hours calling and emailing a handful of chief executives to discuss these ideas. None wanted to speak on the record, because it’s a hot-button topic. But all applauded the idea and some said they had already been thinking about it. A few, I discovered later, called their peers to begin a conversation.

At least two executives said a reason that they haven’t been more outspoken yet is that they fear reprisals from the N.R.A. and other gun supporters —  in the form of actions that could imperil the safety of their employees.

Obviously there would be opposition. When Peter Thiel, the co-founder of PayPal, was asked at a conference about his former company’s decision to not do business with firearms merchants, he made his displeasure clear. “No, I wouldn’t be doing that if I was still running it,” said Mr. Thiel, who left the company years ago and is a supporter of President Trump.

Perhaps the biggest stumbling block to an approach like this are companies like Walmart, which has huge sway over the financial industry. While Walmart stopped selling assault rifles in 2015, it might look askance at any policy by a bank issuer or credit card company to limit the kinds of products it sells.

Critics of using the finance industry to influence gun sales might argue that such a move would be discriminatory against gun retailers. But gun sellers are not a protected class, like age, race, gender, religion or even political affiliation. This would be a strictly commercial decision.

Another critique is that it is impossible to prevent every shooting, no matter how guns are restricted. The banks’ actions may have a slight negative affect on millions of their own customers, effectively dictating what they can and cannot buy. Overall though it is for our societies benefit. 

One aspect of having the finance industry try to restrict gun sales is that it may push the most dangerous guns into an untraceable world where sales would depend on cash. That’s true. All things considered, though, it would make it considerably harder to even find such guns.

There are other sectors of the finance industry that could step up. For example, Lloyd’s of London is the favored insurance company for gun shows. It could pull out.

None of this is a panacea. But it’s a start. It takes leadership and courage — exactly what these executives say they have. If they don’t want to back up their words with actions, the next time there’s a school shooting that prompts a conversation about gun companies, it should also include the financial complex that supports them.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by 41chevy

[h67st]

You know what they say, "When you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns". I firmly believe that criminals and psychologically disturbed people should be blocked from buying guns, but this country was founded by citizens who owned guns...and there may come a day when it will have to be defended by citizens again.

[1958 F.W.D.]

I think we should outlaw guns like they did with drugs, then no one would be able to get them.

 

Oh....wait......shit.......nevermind. 

[terry]

16 minutes ago, 1958 F.W.D. said:

I think we should outlaw guns like they did with drugs, then no one would be able to get them.

 

Oh....wait......shit.......nevermind. 

LOL

[HeavyGunner]

Again it pisses me off that no one seems to give a shit how badly all of the different law enforcements agencies screwed up. Where is all the uproar for the people the citizens of this country PAY to keep us safe not doing their job? Look how well gun control has worked for shitcago and dc, oh wait that's right the highest murder rates in America happen where guns are all but outlawed but let's not let facts get in the way of the democrats agenda. 

Edited February 24, 2018 by HeavyGunner

[Mack Technician]

"At least two executives said a reason that they haven’t been more outspoken yet is that they fear reprisals from the N.R.A. and other gun supporters —  in the form of actions that could imperil the safety of their employees." . Oh my.....full drama queen, lol. 

 

I say let capitalism run it's course. If they are willing to lose the revenue to prove a point that's a noble demonstration of free agency in the market. Long as I have cash at my disposal life is good.

Internet is making it easier to follow the money. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos buys the Washington Post to stick it to Conservatives. Trump dumps a tax tweet on Bezos and Amazon's value drops 6 Billion instantly. Amazon waits till Trump is about to give his State of the Union address (including: stock market brag) to announce a health care merger and dumps the Stock market to make Trump look stupid. I reduce my use of Amazon and start using different internet market. Perfect scenario. Jeff just lost money for messing with the politician I voted for and for messing with my 401K. Free market self-adjustment.  

I enjoy guns, shooting, trap, reloading, NRA member most my life, avid hunter, conceal carry member, etc. Fact is folks ARE getting assult rifle happy, too many idiots are getting their hands on one and too many guns are changing hands outside the system of background check. Let the free market voluntarily absorb the impact of it's gun sale profiteering. Could blow up in their face..........reduce diversity and create a Frankenstein in the market with more lobbyists and a fist full of gun sales money. 

[macks in nigeria]

There are never one size fits all solutions to problems,those who are for guns should also agree that not everyone should carry a gun.When that "nut case" let off those rounds he did not care who he was shooting at, whether the kids of pro or anti gun proponents.

[HeavyGunner]

1 hour ago, macks in nigeria said:

There are never one size fits all solutions to problems,those who are for guns should also agree that not everyone should carry a gun.When that "nut case" let off those rounds he did not care who he was shooting at, whether the kids of pro or anti gun proponents.

No that dirt bag didn't care who he shot or why but outlawing something just because some scumbag used it for something bad makes no sense either. Opioids (prescription heroin basically) kills far far more people every year than guns yet we only here a blurb for a week or two about doing something about it and then it ends.  Deaths where Alcohol is a factor kills far more people a year by a long shot than guns but no one is crying to outlaw it.  Deaths where cars are involved some accidental some purposefully kill more than guns but no one wants to outlaw them. Instead of blaming a tool blame the human and make them pay dearly. Paul had some very interesting statistics he posted last year off of the governments website and it shows fewer homocides by gun from decades ago until now especially when you took suicides out of the total count since they are not homocides. i said in another post that I could give a crap if they banned AR's, they aren't the ultimate platform for hunting like they been pushed.  The only real use I have for them would be for home defense but I've got a 590 A1 9 shot shotgun for that duty. My only fear with budging on letting the democrats take away any gun that is legal today is the truth is they won't stop there.  As soon as AR's are gone then they will go after semi automatic pistols, then semiautomatic shotguns and they will go on and on until we have nothing to defend ourselves with. Why does the whole country have to be punished because our justice system refuses to enforce laws that already exist? Did you know there are over 20000 gun laws on the books already? Everytime I buy a new gun I go through an fbi background check? Just like the massive war zone Chicago has become because no one will enforce the laws or push to use tactics (that work) like stop and frisk in bad areas because they're more worried about being career politicians. 

[Mack Technician]

34 minutes ago, HeavyGunner said:

No that dirt bag didn't care who he shot or why but outlawing something just because some scumbag used it for something bad makes no sense either. Opioids (prescription heroin basically) kills far far more people every year than guns yet we only here a blurb for a week or two about doing something about it and then it ends.  Deaths where Alcohol is a factor kills far more people a year by a long shot than guns but no one is crying to outlaw it.  Deaths where cars are involved some accidental some purposefully kill more than guns but no one wants to outlaw them. Instead of blaming a tool blame the human and make them pay dearly. Paul had some very interesting statistics he posted last year off of the governments website and it shows fewer homocides by gun from decades ago until now especially when you took suicides out of the total count since they are not homocides. i said in another post that I could give a crap if they banned AR's, they aren't the ultimate platform for hunting like they been pushed.  The only real use I have for them would be for home defense but I've got a 590 A1 9 shot shotgun for that duty. My only fear with budging on letting the democrats take away any gun that is legal today is the truth is they won't stop there.  As soon as AR's are gone then they will go after semi automatic pistols, then semiautomatic shotguns and they will go on and on until we have nothing to defend ourselves with. Why does the whole country have to be punished because our justice system refuses to enforce laws that already exist? Did you know there are over 20000 gun laws on the books already? Everytime I buy a new gun I go through an fbi background check? Just like the massive war zone Chicago has become because no one will enforce the laws or push to use tactics (that work) like stop and frisk in bad areas because they're more worried about being career politicians. 

That sums up the whole issue. We are stuck in a zero sum political system. You either WIN or LOSE, no compromise. 

590 is sweet medicine for home defense. I always look at what I would want my wife to accidentally shoot me with. That gun is NOT!!!! the one I want her to accidentally shoot me with. She gets an LCP Crimson trace .380 (gonna hurt but maybe i can still drive to the clinic). 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Mack Technician

[Mack Technician]

2 hours ago, macks in nigeria said:

There are never one size fits all solutions to problems,those who are for guns should also agree that not everyone should carry a gun.When that "nut case" let off those rounds he did not care who he was shooting at, whether the kids of pro or anti gun proponents.

What gun is popular in Nigeria? Curious? Meaning non-government issue guns. You see African tribals running around with homemade single-shot shotguns taking on Boko....gotta be something better in circulation for the general public? Half of Nigeria is under some form of sharia law. Home defense must be a topic? Visualize it must look like North and South Korea in the border country. The news you read seems to concentrate on the muslim south border line as the warring zone. 

[macks in nigeria]

In this country of 180m people,the only gun you are allowed to carry is a single or double barrel shot gun capable of carrying a maximum of 2 rounds solely for hunting and not self defense.When you want one you apply to the Commissioner of police  in your state who has the sole authority to issue you a license to own one.After a waiting period of about 30-60 days during which you are checked out he may issue you one if you pass.The police is Federal in structure as they are no state police in Nigeria.

To the issue of Sharia law ,don"t listen to everything asylum seekers say to make their story sound credible.I am from a state called Benue right on the border between Northern and Southern Nigeria,and can tell you that Nigeria is not divided into Muslim North and Christian South.I can list 6 states in the north that have Christian majority out of the 19 states and about the same in the 17 states in the south of the country with majority Muslims.By the way I am a Christian.

If you google my state you will see a lot of news about the Fulani Herdsmen fighting with the indigenous communities and it's about land not religion.

I wrote about this in a post about climate change a couple of days ago.

A former President said what we have in some states in the north is "political Sharia" that is some Governors looking for second terms through the manipulation of Religion after non performance in their first terms.

I guarantee you if anyone attempted to implement sharia in a swathe of Nigeria there will be no Country with that name again.

We might be in Africa but some part of this country had British trained doctors in 1800's and others around the 50's  less than 70 years ago.

We are aware.

 

[Mack Technician]

Thanks MN, clearly fake news turning me into a misinformed spongiform.  

 

Man, only a double barrel shotgun?! I'm reinvigorated to fight gun control. If I had to go hunt with a double barrel you can count out all three deer heads hanging on my wall.

 

That Knucklehead Uncle Joe Biden must have done some political side work in Nigeria, sounds a lot like one of his playbook "double barrel" one-liners. 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Mack Technician

[41chevy]

What do you and your country men think of the NRA organization?

[macks in nigeria]

What is the NRA? You mean the Nigerian Referees Association? (for soccer that is)

[tjc transport]

4 hours ago, macks in nigeria said:

In this country of 180m people,the only gun you are allowed to carry is a single or double barrel shot gun capable of carrying a maximum of 2 rounds solely for hunting and not self defense.When you want one you apply to the Commissioner of police  in your state who has the sole authority to issue you a license to own one.After a waiting period of about 30-60 days during which you are checked out he may issue you one if you pass.The police is Federal in structure as they are no state police in Nigeria.

 

if you believed American news sources, everyone in Africa carries an AK-47. 

[HeavyGunner]

2 hours ago, Mack Technician said:

Thanks MN, clearly fake news turning me into a misinformed spongiform.  

 

Man, only a double barrel shotgun?! I'm reinvigorated to fight gun control. If I had to go hunt with a double barrel you can count out all three deer heads hanging on my wall.

 

That Knucklehead Uncle Joe Biden must have done some political side work in Nigeria, sounds a lot like one of his playbook "double barrel" one-liners. 

Vlad could speak to this better than I I'm sure but I remember hearing or reading that Russia had similar gun laws. The remote villagers could own shotguns hitch enabled them to hunt birds to bears depending on which shells were in the gun. 

[macks in nigeria]

1 hour ago, tjc transport said:

if you believed American news sources, everyone in Africa carries an AK-47. 

People who carry any assault weapon of any kind are criminals and terrorist groups.There are no legitimate assault weapons in the hands of any civilians.Our last National Security Advisor who is standing trial for Corruption is also been tried for been in possession of about 4 assault rifles that he had no right to be in possession of.His defense was that they were meant for his protection details.One of the reason we do not joke with assault rifles i am sure would have to do with armed overthrow of our Governments in the past.

[tjc transport]

1 hour ago, macks in nigeria said:

People who carry any assault weapon of any kind are criminals and terrorist groups.There are no legitimate assault weapons in the hands of any civilians.Our last National Security Advisor who is standing trial for Corruption is also been tried for been in possession of about 4 assault rifles that he had no right to be in possession of.His defense was that they were meant for his protection details.One of the reason we do not joke with assault rifles i am sure would have to do with armed overthrow of our Governments in the past.

oh, i fully understand that statement. the political climate in a lot of african countries is unstable with warlords and military leaders believing they can do a better job and constantly trying to oust the current leader any way possible.

 

 

"People who carry any assault weapon of any kind are criminals and terrorist groups."

 

 

 

 here in the United States we feel the same way about the news media folks, that they are criminals and terrorists....   hell, we feel that way about most of out politicians too!!

 

[41chevy]

7 hours ago, macks in nigeria said:

What is the NRA? You mean the Nigerian Referees Association? (for soccer that is)

The NRA in the U.S. is the National Rifle Association  founded in 1871. BBC noted this morning the the American NRA is despised by all people in every continent in the world. That  bit of news was than aired on most major news outlets in the States. You may have an opinion being from Nigeria.

[Mack Technician]

I may once again note............ Even though they are considered a "buncha gun nuts" No NRA member has ever been involved in a mass shooting. If I had the insight I like to know what the political affiliation is on the historical mass shooters. 7 out of 10 felons in the USA attach themselved to the Democrats, have to assume most of them are the same.

[macks in nigeria]

6 hours ago, 41chevy said:

The NRA in the U.S. is the National Rifle Association  founded in 1871. BBC noted this morning the the American NRA is despised by all people in every continent in the world. That  bit of news was than aired on most major news outlets in the States. You may have an opinion being from Nigeria.

Of course I know what the NRA is, that was my own way of telling you we really as a people are not bothered about the politics of guns in the US,that been said there are certain individuals like me from here who are interested because we have family in the US some of whom are even citizens.That been said we always wonder and are concerned about the senseless killings that are reported virtually everyday on the News. Here those mass killings can only be carried out by terrorist groups in a very limited area of the country.

There is no chance in hell that your school mate will gun you down because he feels like.Don't get me wrong there is crime here but it is more understandable to be attacked by a highway robber than to be gunned down by a family member.The opiods situation is here too.

[macks in nigeria]

4 hours ago, Mack Technician said:

I may once again note............ Even though they are considered a "buncha gun nuts" No NRA member has ever been involved in a mass shooting. If I had the insight I like to know what the political affiliation is on the historical mass shooters. 7 out of 10 felons in the USA attach themselved to the Democrats, have to assume most of them are the same.

They might not be but their powerful lobby makes it possible even for "nut cases" to have access to guns.

[Mack Technician]

Same could be said of a three-way menace in our society.

1. Brewery and distillery companies

2. Car manufacturers

3. Drunk Drivers

[Mack Technician]

1. Porn industry

2. Molestors and rapists

 

When considering America Vices the gun industry is noble in respect. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Mack Technician

[Mack Technician]

1. Pharmacutical industry

2. Rampant addiction to pain killers (opioid, etc)