TS7 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Mack does not need Cummins, they need the E7 back. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-398618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmyb Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 You know here in Australia Kenworth is probably the market leader. But they still only sell about 2,000 trucks a year. But it’s a business so it has to make a profit, right? So if a company here can make a profit off selling 2,000 units a year sure the same can be done by a company in the USA? Keep in mind our labour costs are a lot more, and your market is 100 times bigger. And profit is profit. Also if a guy buys 5 of a classic styled truck, when it comes time to buy a cheap shit truck he will be inclined to stick with current brand. Also, anyone interested can check out the resale prices of a Kenworth t904, t908 or t909. Then compare them to the same year model freightliner sold here in Australia. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-398619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxidyne Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 TS7, By the time you'd modified an E7 to meet current emmission standards you'd have built a whole new engine, so that option is out. Timmyb, Australian truckers have some extreme requirements like 85 ton and heavier gross train weights in 40+ degree C temps, and they're willing to pay premium prices for a truck up to that can survive in that environment. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-398620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS7 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Do you know that for a fact that a E7 could not have been modified to meet need less current standards? The main reason Mack has lost sales is Volvo engines I think. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-398623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post farmer52 Posted May 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, TS7 said: Do you know that for a fact that a E7 could not have been modified to meet need less current standards? The main reason Mack has lost sales is Volvo engines I think. I worked at Mack Hagerstown and helped develop the first generation E7. I still have contacts at Hagerstown and they all say it would take lots of funds to make the E7 meet current standards. Quite possibly a completely new engine family. Remember the "band aids" that were on the last versions of the E7. If it wasn't for Volvo there might be no Mack. Personally I think Volvo has not marketed the Mack brand correctly and they offer similar vehicles that compete with Mack. They try to tell everyone the engine in a Mack truck is a Mack engine. It is a Volvo engine with HP/Torque curves specific to Mack applications painted maroon (what happened to gray or gold?) and Mack ID. While some of the engineering is done in Hagerstown, it is funded by Volvo. Just my 3 cents. 4 Quote Ken PRR Country and Charter member of the "Mack Pack" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-398624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 41180 Posted May 10, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2018 Mack lost its heavy haul, premium market share when the e9 v8 was allowed to die. That was their halo product that was well respected in the premium truck market . In reality the fact is mack is dead it would take series cash and marketing to bring mack back out of grave and Volvo won't allow that to happen, to Volvo's own detriment they won't do it. If Mack was spun off as a real entity with competent people in control mack could succeed but we all know that won't happen as long as volvo owns it it's just a shell . 3 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-398627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmyb Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 11 hours ago, logtruckman said: Mack lost its heavy haul, premium market share when the e9 v8 was allowed to die. That was their halo product that was well respected in the premium truck market . In reality the fact is mack is dead it would take series cash and marketing to bring mack back out of grave and Volvo won't allow that to happen, to Volvo's own detriment they won't do it. If Mack was spun off as a real entity with competent people in control mack could succeed but we all know that won't happen as long as volvo owns it it's just a shell . It's a sad reality, but I agree with you. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-398645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS7 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 A Mack truck needs a Mack engine. What Volvo spent for their junk sure did not turn out so great. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-398651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaican Bulldog Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 On 5/10/2018 at 6:23 AM, farmer52 said: I worked at Mack Hagerstown and helped develop the first generation E7. I still have contacts at Hagerstown and they all say it would take lots of funds to make the E7 meet current standards. Quite possibly a completely new engine family. Remember the "band aids" that were on the last versions of the E7. If it wasn't for Volvo there might be no Mack. Personally I think Volvo has not marketed the Mack brand correctly and they offer similar vehicles that compete with Mack. They try to tell everyone the engine in a Mack truck is a Mack engine. It is a Volvo engine with HP/Torque curves specific to Mack applications painted maroon (what happened to gray or gold?) and Mack ID. While some of the engineering is done in Hagerstown, it is funded by Volvo. Just my 3 cents. I am still amazed how HP Mack was able to squeeze out of an engine the size of an E7. You guys did a great job. Are any of the engineering team of that time still around and did any of the original Mack engineering team have any significant input in the development of MP or Volvo derived engines? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-399349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer52 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 8 hours ago, Jamaican Bulldog said: I am still amazed how HP Mack was able to squeeze out of an engine the size of an E7. You guys did a great job. Are any of the engineering team of that time still around and did any of the original Mack engineering team have any significant input in the development of MP or Volvo derived engines? I too was and still amazed at how much HP the Mack E6 and E7 could generate considering the size of the engine. To my knowledge very few if any original Mack engineering personnel were involved with the MP design and most are no longer there. The MP engine is a Volvo design with little Mack input. Quote Ken PRR Country and Charter member of the "Mack Pack" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-399362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaican Bulldog Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 16 hours ago, farmer52 said: I too was and still amazed at how much HP the Mack E6 and E7 could generate considering the size of the engine. To my knowledge very few if any original Mack engineering personnel were involved with the MP design and most are no longer there. The MP engine is a Volvo design with little Mack input. Where did the Mack powertrain engineers end up after Volvo? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-399413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer52 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 21 hours ago, Jamaican Bulldog said: Where did the Mack powertrain engineers end up after Volvo? I don't have a good answer other than many retired in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Many of the E7 engineers were in their mid 40s and older with E6 experience. I believe there was an early retirement program (not sure if by Mack or Volvo). Of the ones that remained some worked on the development of the Volvo engine under Volvo's direction. As I mentioned, the engine was designed by Volvo and Hagerstown "Mackized" it for Mack applications. When the MP series was introduced, Mack said it was a Mack engine. Actually other then the valve/rocker cover and paint, it was really a Volvo engine. Other engineering staff were/are responsible for the "heritage iron" (E7 and ETech). But many of the "true" Mack people are gone/retired. I was a "flash in the pan" for my time at Hagerstown. I left for what I thought were "greener pastures". An old time Mack guy I worked with felt the "Mack" days were numbered (and this was around 1985). At that time Mack was owned by Renault. A joke that circulated back then was the bulldog was going to be replaced by a french poodle. Likely others may have a better answer. My info is based on some conversations with people I stayed in contact with during my "after Mack" career. Quote Ken PRR Country and Charter member of the "Mack Pack" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/52816-why-cummins-for-volvos-and-not-newer-macks/page/4/#findComment-399440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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