Call me crazy...Ive got CM422 on the brain...

[85snowdog]

Thanks for explaining the difference between the CM and the CS .  

Now that I know the CM is Macungie built with CH / R parts , I want one . lol 

Like all your stuff , the CM looks really good . 

 

[Jamaican Bulldog]

On 9/22/2021 at 6:59 PM, bbigrig said:

This CL is one of the few CL Elite Limited Editions built. (Less then 150) My one has the E7400 instead of the E9 that was an available option.

Wow, I did not know that paint/decal  scheme was a limited edition.

[bbigrig]

1 hour ago, Jamaican Bulldog said:

Wow, I did not know that paint/decal  scheme was a limited edition.

Only 6 paint colors and 3 stripe color options were available on the CL Elite Limited Editions. I would upload the brochure but it looks like I've reached my max for file uploads.

[Vladislav]

On 9/23/2021 at 2:02 AM, bbigrig said:

This is not a (Renault) Midliner CS.  This is a Macungie PA built CM422.  Different trucks.

What is the difference? I see the chassis rails don't look like an R-model stuff. Renault? Or a CH?

Also it has real truck wheels. Did Mack use complete axles or only reworked hubs to fit Budds?

Saw you mentioned the wiring and the air brake setup in the cab. Anymore major points?

Anyway it's an interesting rig. I didn't hear about a CM before. My respect to its rareness, worth to keep in the stable.

[bbigrig]

1 hour ago, Vladislav said:

What is the difference? I see the chassis rails don't look like an R-model stuff. Renault? Or a CH?

Also it has real truck wheels. Did Mack use complete axles or only reworked hubs to fit Budds?

Saw you mentioned the wiring and the air brake setup in the cab. Anymore major points?

Anyway it's an interesting rig. I didn't hear about a CM before. My respect to its rareness, worth to keep in the stable.

The frame is "basically" the same as the CH. (Not Renault) the crossmembers are older single frame R model

Axles were Mack front and rear and available in either spoke or stud pilot wheels (alum or steel)

Engines were Renault (E5) or Cummins 8.3L

Trans was Spicer or Fuller 7 and 9 speeds

Besides the engine option cab shell and some interior parts, hood, everything else on the CM was Mack. 

For those that have seen Midliner wiring/fuse panel, they will recognize the picture I posted of the CM fuse panel.

Complete air system is North American.

Big difference.

Edited September 25, 2021 by bbigrig

[bbigrig]

[bbigrig]

[bbigrig]

[Vladislav]

Pretty interesting. Also taking to account a full size truck chassis (CH) and big wheels its babiness seems doubtful. Ok, smaller engine and shorter hood were probably the goal. But I belive the track was wide and overall weight raiting mostly due to the axles and wheels could be quite high.

The twin screwer on the photo above looks pretty nice. Definitely uncommon thing. What the on-chassis cab mounts look like? If you made any pics of them while working on the chassis please share a bit on here.

Also I can't figure out which truck you fix. Have you the hubs/wheels swapped out to hub pilot? Or is that a different truck, not the one on spokes in the initial pictures?

[mowerman]

wow thanks for the cool photos..i would gladly take any one of them....i would like to have a liftgate bobtail for side work..bob

[bbigrig]

5 hours ago, Vladislav said:

Pretty interesting. Also taking to account a full size truck chassis (CH) and big wheels its babiness seems doubtful. Ok, smaller engine and shorter hood were probably the goal. But I belive the track was wide and overall weight raiting mostly due to the axles and wheels could be quite high.

The twin screwer on the photo above looks pretty nice. Definitely uncommon thing. What the on-chassis cab mounts look like? If you made any pics of them while working on the chassis please share a bit on here.

Also I can't figure out which truck you fix. Have you the hubs/wheels swapped out to hub pilot? Or is that a different truck, not the one on spokes in the initial pictures?

We changed out the spoke wheels which it was built with to Hub Pilot aluminum disc wheels. Easy to do as these are Mack axles and hubs are readily available. (Mid liners never had spoke wheels as an option)  Same wheel track as Mack R as same axles used on both models. 

The baby 8 was built to be smaller and cheaper then an R model but heavier then a Midliner. It was only available from 88 to late 89. Just over 600 CM422 (single axle Renault power) were built. 

Cab mounts were same as Midliner but bolted to Mack Frame rail.

[mowerman]

I thought the mid liner was the magarus is that correct.. bob 

[mrsmackpaul]

I dont think so, the cab was shared around a bit, but the drive train and chassis ob most was Renault, so French and Magiurs was German

Paul

 

[Hayseed]

10 hours ago, mowerman said:

I thought the mid liner was the magarus is that correct.. bob 

No the Midliner is Renault. .

However they used the Club of 4  Cab which was shared by Volvo Daf, Magirus & Renault..

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_of_Four

[Vladislav]

12 hours ago, bbigrig said:

We changed out the spoke wheels which it was built with to Hub Pilot aluminum disc wheels. Easy to do as these are Mack axles and hubs are readily available. (Mid liners never had spoke wheels as an option)  Same wheel track as Mack R as same axles used on both models. 

The baby 8 was built to be smaller and cheaper then an R model but heavier then a Midliner. It was only available from 88 to late 89. Just over 600 CM422 (single axle Renault power) were built. 

Cab mounts were same as Midliner but bolted to Mack Frame rail.

Thanks for the details, almost new story to me.

A bit more of couriosity, and sorry for that - what are the front spring hangers and spring packs? CH I suppose? Or R? To my understanding CH has different spacing between the springs than an R but the axle beam is probably just drilled a bit different like it was done to MH/RW being basically the same casting used on R's, CH's, MH's etc.

And how are the air tanks and battery boxes arranged? I don't see what was typical for a Mack chassis of the era on your pictures.

[mowerman]

Ok thanks I didn’t realize Mack actually had thier own thanks for all the information that’s very interesting.:. Bob

[bbigrig]

1 hour ago, Vladislav said:

Thanks for the details, almost new story to me.

A bit more of couriosity, and sorry for that - what are the front spring hangers and spring packs? CH I suppose? Or R? To my understanding CH has different spacing between the springs than an R but the axle beam is probably just drilled a bit different like it was done to MH/RW being basically the same casting used on R's, CH's, MH's etc.

And how are the air tanks and battery boxes arranged? I don't see what was typical for a Mack chassis of the era on your pictures.

Air tanks were mounted side ways (left to right) and only 2 of them. (Midliner 3 tanks front to back)  Battery box is above tanks but space for 3 (midliner 2 spaces) the midliner axle is drilled differently then a CH axle. Spring spacing is narrow and uses midliner front brakets 

[Vladislav]

3 hours ago, bbigrig said:

Air tanks were mounted side ways (left to right) and only 2 of them. (Midliner 3 tanks front to back)  Battery box is above tanks but space for 3 (midliner 2 spaces) the midliner axle is drilled differently then a CH axle. Spring spacing is narrow and uses midliner front brakets 

Midliner front brackets? Hmm, interesting. Definitely some engeneering was involved. Also I rifled through the net a little and found out CM had 9.27 frame rails. CH rails were 10" tall. I tried to relate that section to any other Mack rail and found no similarity. Could be missprint. But RBM (resistance moment?) was pointed out as 1020000 Lbs in what is the same figure to the rear (straight) portion of a CL600 (RW600) frame rail. That rail is 9.37" tall so again incomplete correspondence or a missprint. Anyway it looks like CM didn't utilize CH rails but its own ones.

cm_k364.pdf

[mrsmackpaul]

19 hours ago, bbigrig said:

 (Mid liners never had spoke wheels as an option)  

Not to argue ir even question wgat is said as Im definitely no expert here at all

 

The broucher in Vlads link above shows spoke wheels 

 

Maybe different parts of North America offered different options, a bit like east and west coast 

 

Just a observation 

 

Interested to know your thoughts 

 

Paul

[880joe]

Is there an easy way to identify the CL Elite limited edition? I have 1 with the same paint scheme

[bbigrig]

1 hour ago, 880joe said:

Is there an easy way to identify the CL Elite limited edition? I have 1 with the same paint scheme

Post up the last 6 digits of the VIN. Has to be a CL613 model. I have a list and I will check.

[bbigrig]

5 hours ago, Vladislav said:

Midliner front brackets? Hmm, interesting. Definitely some engeneering was involved. Also I rifled through the net a little and found out CM had 9.27 frame rails. CH rails were 10" tall. I tried to relate that section to any other Mack rail and found no similarity. Could be missprint. But RBM (resistance moment?) was pointed out as 1020000 Lbs in what is the same figure to the rear (straight) portion of a CL600 (RW600) frame rail. That rail is 9.37" tall so again incomplete correspondence or a missprint. Anyway it looks like CM didn't utilize CH rails but its own ones.

cm_k364.pdf 338.83 kB · 1 download

Similar to CH,  straight rails. Slightly smaller.

I have a breakdown of the rails I will post up another day. 

[bbigrig]

4 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Not to argue ir even question wgat is said as Im definitely no expert here at all

 

The broucher in Vlads link above shows spoke wheels 

 

Maybe different parts of North America offered different options, a bit like east and west coast 

 

Just a observation 

 

Interested to know your thoughts 

 

Paul

Spoke wheels were never an Option on Midliner in North America. I believe what Vlad posted is the CM baby 8 info he found on the net.

Midliners use Eurpoean wheels and hubs on Renault axles. 

[mrsmackpaul]

I have never seen a midliner with a bonnet or hood on it, I  assumed that was a North American thing

Vlad do you know if a hood was ever offered in Europe?

 

Paul

[bbigrig]

11 hours ago, Vladislav said:

Thanks for the details, almost new story to me.

A bit more of couriosity, and sorry for that - what are the front spring hangers and spring packs? CH I suppose? Or R? To my understanding CH has different spacing between the springs than an R but the axle beam is probably just drilled a bit different like it was done to MH/RW being basically the same casting used on R's, CH's, MH's etc.

And how are the air tanks and battery boxes arranged? I don't see what was typical for a Mack chassis of the era on your pictures.

For comparison purposes. 

Similar frame rails. Not exact. Very few bends and curves in comparison to other models Mack offered.  R series style cross members used.