81 Mack - CL

[Truck Shop]

https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/hvo/d/mack-water-truck-5118/6586564206.html

Truck Shop

 

[Rob]

Looks like another case of a broker not knowing what he is selling.

[Truck Shop]

                               That truck is not brokered. No rust, I guess someone could spend a ton of time and money fixing their cab that's rotted out or buy this for a lot less than a restore.

                               Truck Shop

                               

[Rob]

Besides a sloppy repaint and lack of maintenance to the wheel seals, it's most likely a very good unit. I don't see too many city departments selling off their assets which also have several horse and livestock trailers around so thinking the municipality is not conducting the sale. I'm old enough to remember "tachographs" quite well, and they usually weren't installed into trucks for anything other than keep track of drivers and their output. Damned things if left operational didn't allow much lenience to getting ahead back in those days..... 

[james j neiweem]

237 maxidyne?

[74 Pete]

I just joined your group to find information on this water truck, then I was going to list it. This was sold "NEW" to are local Rural Fire Dept in 1981. Rural and City FDP merged in about 2000. The truck sat out behind the FDP only getting occasional use. I bought it from the FDP to save it from ending up on a cow ranch and being destroyed!!  It had been taken to La Grande. where the pumps were pulled and drove it home yesterday. This drives like new runs absolutely awesome!!! This has 5118 Original miles on it, with 2151 engine hours.  I am not a dealer I just thought it needed to go to a really good home!! If you want to part it out, I will not sell it to you !!!  But feel free to call me at 541 786 4859  I doubt you will find a lower miles truck for sale. Thanks

[yarnall]

Welcome to the forum.  It looks pretty nice.  Definitely a good save.  What is the serial number?  How much are you asking for it?  I'm in PA so probably won't be buying it but everyone else wants to know too.  Mike.  

[74 Pete]

Thanks Mike, The Vin is TR298123. I do not know what it is worth?  I would like to sell it for a fair price to someone that will use it.  It is very clean but  has odd components.

[Rob]

It is a very nice truck; didn't say it wasn't. The original posted asking price was unrealistic, (my opinion) and the setting or backdrop of the photos indicated it was being sold by a third party to actual ownership. Kudos to the owner for stepping up and posting what is known about it.

The truck would be worth a lot more in the eastern states than the western given the condition citing lack of rust for sure. However, the distance and cost of transport eastward will seriously impact interest there. I'm certain it would be a very reliable unit for someone but they would need to be looking for this type of short wheelbase tractor and power combination which is not very desirable these days. Occasional, and hobby usage excluded, the market will be slim. Even the owner knows how "thrifty" farmers, or ranchers can be when it comes to purchasing things such as this I'm sure.

Just my thoughts and no offense meant. I hope a sale is made and all are happy.

[74 Pete]

Thanks, it is a short truck and does not have a big plant in it either. We were thinking  it would make a great little RV tote, or its a good candidate for a show truck. It needs a over trans in it, then it can cook down the road.

 The pictures I took at my yard, where I park things that are "down the line" for doing anything with. Did you see something special in the back ground?Heh heh? It really needs thinned out!

[Rob]

Again, the truck/tractor is very nice and am happy you are as open about learning about it as we are sharing what we know.  Being a former fire truck usually means low miles but high hours for the miles as your shows. Trucks built after 4/1/1980 went to a 17 digit serial number where trucks built prior had a 13 digit serial number such as R685STXXXXXXX, (X's representing numbers). Your truck being a 1981 will be something like  1M2W133Y4BA009700. The "B" character in the serial number represents 1981 as date of manufacture. If you replace the "B" with an "F", it represents a 1985 Mack R685 currently listed on Truckpaper.com. The serial number is a screen grab for showing here and I have no affiliation.

I assume your truck is an R685 series with a Mack 237 engine which probably is an EM6-237 and five speed direct transmission. This would be a TR-107 series transmission. Both are rock solid in performance as are the 34K Mack rears which likely will have 4.17, or 4.42 rear gears. Being a direct transmission, I'd wager the 4.17 which were very common.

As mentioned, rock solid in performance, and about as reliable as you will ever see in a road truck. I would pull the tank, clean and paint the frame, replace the front wheel hubcap seal or caps themselves if oil filled hubs, shine the paint up a bit, and then to look to market it. Look at www.truckpaper.com and use your best judgement to ascertain a value as they will be all over the board on that site.

It is unfortunate freight to transport the truck would cost so much but back east there is a lot more value than your present location, (my opinion) as Mack had a much stronger following there. I've had three trucks hauled from somewhat close to you and 3K is very reasonable to central Illinois so would be more if further. If someone wants to purchase the truck that has been on this site for a while, they could have it transported to my place for safe but outside storage till they could pick it up to lessen the freight costs. I have plenty of room and the neighbors aren't a bother so six months isn't a problem. It did appear the tires were older and a mixture of caps, and originals so would question whether jumping right on the road for a cross country jaunt would be prudent also.

Feel free to post any questions you have we may answer. I'm sure I speak for the group when saying we'll try to help you out best we can. I for one, really like the old Mack R models but my wife would be "fit to be tied" if I brought another home as I'm way back on projects for her to take on another for me.....

I'm constantly reminded about having a lot of stuff, and it's value across the scales.....    

[74 Pete]

Thank you!!! Lots of info!!! I do not have caps on anything we run, I will safely say that there is only one new drive tire on it and the rest are ready to pop off on the road if it was to go far. And I am with you, if it had shinny new shoes I would head out in.

 My other thoughts are I have a 74 Pete that I have had since 1989. Guessing from parts I have replaced over the years it has earlier 80's Mack steer axle with the box mounted to the front axle, with 4:10 Bogies on Reyco spring. What my question is, do the hubs and drums" they are bud wheels"  off the Pete  interchange direct to replace  the Cali wheels on the water truck? Or is it even worth the trouble?  Thanks Coy

[Rob]

17 minutes ago, 74 Pete said:

Thank you!!! Lots of info!!! I do not have caps on anything we run, I will safely say that there is only one new drive tire on it and the rest are ready to pop off on the road if it was to go far. And I am with you, if it had shinny new shoes I would head out in.

 My other thoughts are I have a 74 Pete that I have had since 1989. Guessing from parts I have replaced over the years it has earlier 80's Mack steer axle with the box mounted to the front axle, with 4:10 Bogies on Reyco spring. What my question is, do the hubs and drums" they are bud wheels"  off the Pete  interchange direct to replace  the Cali wheels on the water truck? Or is it even worth the trouble?  Thanks Coy

Off the cuff I don't think it would be a ready swap but that is without any information. First thing to do is look at the stamped area of both axles. If Mack axles, right under the rt. front spring leaf will be a series of letters and numbers such as FA-5XX and some other numerics. If a Rockwell/Meritor axle, there will be a tag in the center of the axle beam. If both trucks have Mack axles take those numbers to a heavy truck parts supplier and see what bearings the hubs use. If different bearings, no since going any further. If the same bearings, remove a wheel from each truck and start measuring the bearing surfaces for distance(s) from each other, and spindle length(s). If measurements are the same, then yes the hubs will swap. If not, it would be a "no go". for your current swap. There would have to be a lot of R model Mack trucks with Budd style wheels out your way I'd think as the Dayton, (spokes) were not so common out west. 

With the steering gear mounted to the axle beam under your Pete, I'd wager the axle is from an RW series of some sort. Early 80's probably. Your truck a 358 series?

[74 Pete]

Well great! I will look at this in the next few days. The Pete is a 359, it was a manual steering truck so I guess that was a less expensive way to make it power.  And we all Know the SQHD rears probably needed replaced, and the Bogies are tough! Thank you!!!! Coy

[Rob]

SQHD's weren't too bad if kept serviced. I have a spare set out back with the rear rear having a Detroit Locker installed, (I did it) and it's going into something I'll use sometime..... Both the 101, and 102 series of Reyco four spring rear suspension were good setups but did wear a few parts. Probably one of the best riding spring suspensions out there. Most parts are still readily available through Euclid.

I didn't know the 359 series was out in 1974 but am really not too familiar with the brand.

 

[74 Pete]

I like the Reyco spring, but spring break often and it axle crawls a little, also light on traction "empty" we have two trucks with it in there.

SQHDS were fine for the time, but if you worked them they needed to have bearings put in like once a year. They would get sloppy and often have problems. I wonder if the Bogies even wear out? The worst thing with mine is  it has the "auto power divider", the needles have to be replaced occasionally.

 73 was the first year 359 with the wide hood we have a 74,76,79,85 and two 87's. The 79 is a California hauler, its kind of the pride of the fleet if you will. I also have a 1955 Gmc 450 I am working on. I am trying to get a 6v92T to fit "its z tight fit!"

[Rob]

When I was working trucks as a job the Reyco spring setup was very common for on road use. You are correct they are not very good at off road articulation and traction in comparison to Hendrickson, or Mack suspensions. Never really noticed many problems with SQHD's but they weren't quite so "old" in those days either; and 300 engine horsepower was a real "Horse". Seen a few broken spring leaves, but really don't remember any more than other brands.

Never have really been around Peterbilt much at all. Some Kenworth, but by far and above, Mack due to the division I worked in. I mostly worked on the same trucks over and over as there were up to 33 in the business segment and all were R models, and three B-6X series. Most trucks had "Maxidyne", and "Maxitorque" transmissions, and all were on Mack rears where I was.

The 3.70 ratio SQHD's I have are from under a White "Constuctor" dump truck that was on Hendrickson. That Detroit Locker doesn't have but about 5K on it when the truck caught fire from a bad fuel line so I kept the rears as they are sound. One of my Western RL797 trucks has SQHD's under it and these differentials will go into that truck. It currently has 4.11 ratio and a direct Mack 10 speed trans.

Had a buddy several years ago with a 72 358 series truck which had a large drom box on the back. Way too long for me at the time but I put a large Leece-Neville alternator on it as he kept adding chicken lights and the charging system wasn't up to par to support them.

Yes, making a 6V-92T fit in a narrow chassis is going to be a chore. Wide engine with all the piping installed.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Rob

[74 Pete]

 A White? Was it a White Freightliner or a white Star or a white GMC or just a White??  I Have a 84 GMC Road Boss 2, It say's Gmc out front, the bill of sale from the dash Reads White, and the title says its a Freightliner.  I bought it for parts and havent the heart to dismantle it its the best starting truck we have, it has a "city" Big cam 3 in it. The thing swings twice and lights!!! Damnedest thing we have ever seen???  I am going to have bite my tongue and pull the plant.

 So the steer axle your thinking came from a Superliner? Or a COE? Thanks

[Rob]

Was a White branded truck. Looked just like an Autocar with the treadplate fenders. Had the then corporate "Driver's Cab". The White Freightliners were cabover trucks and the conventionals were only "White" branded. I think White purchased the GM heavy truck division in 1982 and from 1983, or 1984 the former General Motors trucks were labled "White/GMC sometime along in there. After White collapsed into bankruptcy in the mid 80's, (IIRC) Volvo wound up the truck division. I really don't know as wasn't around any of those brands much.

Why this end dumper had 3.70 ratio rears is beyond me. It did have a Fuller RT-9509, and a Spicer 8341 behind it however but still that could be brutal on a driveline. Engine was a 220hp 6-71 Detroit. Shame too as the truck was painted up pretty nice being red with white accents and extra lighting. Was always clean too. On spokes front and rear but that was common then

[j hancock]

Here is a picture looking down at a Superliner axle mounted steering box.

[74 Pete]

Great ! Thanks, Mine is very similar to the pictures , maybe a different style box but the same principal.

 Thats right, I had a friend who ran the Volvo's they were conventional trucks and when the hood was open you could see the provisions for the headlights. They used the same cabs on the COE. His truck "OLD GOLD" had a silver 92 under the hood and at the time I had a 81 freightliner conventional with a silver 92. We would plug the lanes in Walla Walla, Wa. We always tried to catch a red light and when the green hit, we wind'm up! Dave's always out ran mine by a few feet "Think he had different gears" but I could pull him on the hill.

[74 Pete]

 Rob, I looked at the engine tag today, it has a EM6-300 It runs very well!!

[Rob]

That is a very good engine. Not strong enough to tear itself apart but gobs of torque down low to pull the load. A good improvement to the venerable 237 with stronger main saddles and webs in the lower end allowing for greater horsepower. Both five, and two stick six speed "Maxitorque" transmissions would have backed that series of engine. The 4.17 ratio is probably installed in the rears.