1937 Type 25 E Series Fire Truck

[Mack58B42]

Well - been away from the computer for most of the summer.  Seem to always either be at work, doing something outside, or asleep as a result of the above 2.

But figured I should share that I've just doubled the size of my Mack fire truck fleet....

Won't arrive for a week or two, but I'll be headed out on a final inspection trip next week to check it all out and grab some extra items that I want to secure properly for the ride home.  Had a decent chat with the seller last night, and although it's bought site unseen, I think I'm satisfied with what I'll be getting.  It was advertised as an ED, but I'm not sure, without having seen the nameplate yet, if that's correct, as I think the ED didn't start production until 1938, but I've found mixed information on that while searching....

It's a bit of a project, so I'll be puttering around on it during the fall and when the garage isn't too cold during the winter....  But I'm told it does run and yard drive.  Biggest issues are brakes (what a surprise!), and fuel system.

[j hancock]

Congrats!

The museum will help with the correct date.  It "seems" that the 25 usually compares to the civilian DE chassis with 20" wheels and with a EN 12  226 cid engine.

Really nice that all of the hard to find trim parts appear to be in place!

[HeavyGunner]

That is a really neat truck ya got there. 

[gxbxc]

just a tad crusty but still a great find enjoy it.

[Mack58B42]

57 minutes ago, j hancock said:

Congrats!

The museum will help with the correct date.  It "seems" that the 25 usually compares to the civilian DE chassis with 20" wheels and with a EN 12  226 cid engine.

Really nice that all of the hard to find trim parts appear to be in place!

Jim - I think you might be right about the DE designation.  It does have the 20" wheels. And it fits the timeline better.  Is the EN12 a Continental?  That's whats in it....  But I agree - one of the attractions is that is pretty much complete (it comes with the bumper - it's just not attached....).

I do have a pic of the nameplate now, so I'll be sending that off to the museum with a nice donation for their research efforts....

[Mack58B42]

18 minutes ago, gxbxc said:

just a tad crusty but still a great find enjoy it.

Yeah - I wish the paint was a little better, but so far, all the pics I have give no indication of any serious cancer anywhere.  Not sure what I'll do about paint yet.  I want to see how the intact paint cleans up, then I'll decide about the doors and fenders, which are clearly in pretty bad shape, at least in terms of finish surface.  Perhaps I'll paint them black and have a bit of a unique 2-tone...  We'll see...  Got to take care of the critical mechanicals first.   

[bulldogboy]

That pump setup looks home made. Did the department buy a commercial chassis and build a fire truck on it? Do you know what department it came from? Nice little rig!!

bulldogboy

[VaPatentman]

I was looking at it long and hard. Glad it has gone to a good home! I talked to the seller as well about the overall condition. From the YouTube clip it sounded pretty good. It is comforting knowing it won't be destroyed. I saved all the images and was able to zoom in on them and overall it looks like just heavy surface rust. Good luck and I look forward to hearing more after it is delivered. 

[j hancock]

10 hours ago, Mack58B42 said:

Is the EN12 a Continental?  

Yes, it is a Continental F6 226 cid made under contract with Mack and will have the Mack script cast into the block side wall on the drivers side.

The Mack EN 11 is a Continental F6 209 cid.

The engine number is stamped on a machined pad in the block to the left of the oil fill and above the generator.  EN 11 example.

[Mack58B42]

12 hours ago, bulldogboy said:

That pump setup looks home made. Did the department buy a commercial chassis and build a fire truck on it? Do you know what department it came from? Nice little rig!!

bulldogboy

I'm told that it was purchased as a chemical truck, and that the pump was added later, so it was probably a 'local' or department-made addition.  I'm told it was Mount Vernon FD, which I'm assuming is the Mount Vernon in NY.  I got a pic of the nameplate, and it is plated as a model 25, so that would confirm, I think, that it was sold as a fire apparatus.

[Mack58B42]

2 hours ago, j hancock said:

Yes, it is a Continental F6 226 cid made under contract with Mack and will have the Mack script cast into the block side wall on the drivers side.

The Mack EN 11 is a Continental F6 209 cid.

The engine number is stamped on a machined pad in the block to the left of the oil fill and above the generator.  EN 11 example.

 

Thanks!  Now I know right where to look!

[609albert]

Good luck with his project ,it will be a cute truck, photo updates too

[Mack58B42]

1 hour ago, 609albert said:

Good luck with his project ,it will be a cute truck, photo updates too

Thanks - I can't wait to get it and get started on getting it roadworthy.  My understanding is that this has somewhat unique wheel cylinders that NAPA will not be able to cross, so it looks like job one is going to be finding someone to send them to that can re-build them...  And I think I'll get a 15 gallon fuel cell to stash away somewhere for now, as well as a new electric fuel pump.  That should get me pretty close to getting it driveable....

Of course, I'll post updates, and hopefully things will slow down a bit at work (well, actually, don't want a slowdown - ideally it gets busy enough to get help!) so I can spend some weekends working on this rather than being there all the time!

 

[j hancock]

I rebuilt the wheel cylinders on the DE with a hone and parts from NAPA.  Didn't look special to me.  Figured out the cylinder bore size and matched up with a repair kit for a Dodge or Ford.

Haven't had any issues.  If you get in a bind, I will look for the numbers that worked for me.

White Post in VA and others offer a rebuild service and the bore can be done in stainless steel.

[Mack58B42]

2 hours ago, j hancock said:

I rebuilt the wheel cylinders on the DE with a hone and parts from NAPA.  Didn't look special to me.  Figured out the cylinder bore size and matched up with a repair kit for a Dodge or Ford.

Haven't had any issues.  If you get in a bind, I will look for the numbers that worked for me.

White Post in VA and others offer a rebuild service and the bore can be done in stainless steel.

Thanks Jim.  I'm not all that mechanically inclined when it comes to that kind of fine work, and especially on things that make the brakes functional (or not...)!  I'm OK when it's obvious that part A bolts to part B, but beyond that, I get nervous.

But thanks for the lead on White Post - I'll check them out.  I also have some trucking friends locally that might know of someone more local that does it, and might want to take it on during the winter doldrums...

[kscarbel2]

https://whitepost.com/brake-sleeving-rebuilding-services/

[yarnall]

I used white post for the wheel cylinders, master cylinder and brake booster on my 405A.  I am very happy with their work. Only send one side at a time and send them UPS.  The postal service lost my package the first time.  I had to go looking for parts which was what I was trying to avoid.  Mike. 

[41chevy]

 

On 8/24/2018 at 10:27 AM, Mack58B42 said:

I'm told that it was purchased as a chemical truck, and that the pump was added later, so it was probably a 'local' or department-made addition.  I'm told it was Mount Vernon FD, which I'm assuming is the Mount Vernon in NY.  I got a pic of the nameplate, and it is plated as a model 25, so that would confirm, I think, that it was sold as a fire apparatus.

Could be Mount Vernon in  N.Y, Mass, New Hampshire, Vermont or even Mount Vernon Maine. E series came out in 1936.   Paul

[bulldogboy]

           Not Mont Vernon, NH (no "U"). Mont Vernon Fire Department did have a 1948 Mack Type 45 pumper that it purchased in 1967. It was originally Billerica, MA Fire Department Engine 2.

           Mack Truck delivery photo.

                                                                          bulldogboy

[Mack58B42]

On 8/26/2018 at 8:56 PM, yarnall said:

I used white post for the wheel cylinders, master cylinder and brake booster on my 405A.  I am very happy with their work. Only send one side at a time and send them UPS.  The postal service lost my package the first time.  I had to go looking for parts which was what I was trying to avoid.  Mike. 

Interesting.  I wouldn't have thought to split the shipment to avoid losing the whole set!  Thanks....

[VaPatentman]

The Master Cylinder of my 42-DE started leaking after a drive on Saturday. Upon removal I found casting marks reading 2704. After some research I found it to be a Master Cylinder that was used on many IH models as well as some B Model Macks. Does anyone know it this was original or installed by one of the two previous owners? In any event I found one on Amazon,  Cardone Select 13-40661 for $37.95. I’ll post how it works out after it arrives on Thursday.

[j hancock]

What I believe to be oem was casting #FD 2951.  Crosses to NMC P34232 (Proformer Master Cylinders) and NMC M681 (Ultra Premium Master Cylinder) both available through NAPA last I knew.  It was used on DIVCO, Studebaker, small Diamond-T, and Binder.

If your #2704 works, go with it.  The price on the replacement #2951 is much higher.

[VaPatentman]

3 hours ago, j hancock said:

What I believe to be oem was casting #FD 2951.  Crosses to NMC P34232 (Proformer Master Cylinders) and NMC M681 (Ultra Premium Master Cylinder) both available through NAPA last I knew.  It was used on DIVCO, Studebaker, small Diamond-T, and Binder.

If your #2704 works, go with it.  The price on the replacement #2951 is much higher.

Jim, The FD2704 actually has 1/2 bore vs 1 1/4 bore for the FD2951. That said, I think it will stop OK. If the FD2951 was the original part number it is obvious the 1-st or 2-nd owner replaced it at some point with the main concern probably being the bolt pattern. Thanks for the info. I will add the correct part number to my replacement part number matrix I have been working on since I bought my DE.

[inter1946]

Hi, new here, I have a 1938 Mack truck frame with the gas flat head six engine and a four speed. My clutch would not disengage so I took the trans out and cleaned all the rat and mouse house out and all the old burnt clutch gunk off so the plates moved freely had the clutch rebuild, replaced the bearing. I put all back together and clutch still will not disengage. Is there some kind of adjustment? there are only 4 parts to this and don't see anything else broken or worn out. any help would be great.   

[j hancock]

Are the clutch cross shafts rotating freely?

Years of mouse piss will usually seize the cross shafts into the bellhousing bores.  Yellow lines point to problem spots.

Yes, part of the mouse nest is still in the bellhousing.