1972 CF-600 ENDT675 Cold Weather Starting?

[tenfive0]

New to me 1972 CF-600. Bought the truck over this past summer and there are no current issues with starting it in warmer or hot weather. I'm a retired Firefighter / Driver Operator and at the time our department exclusively only ran Mack CF-600's. Our trucks were ALL WAYS kept plugged in, in a heated garage. We never had to deal with our trucks being left out in the cold. They were always warm and cozy.

I do not have the luxury of keeping my truck in a heated garage over the winter. I plan on not running the truck much in the winter but I want to be able to start it to move it if I have to. I'm not familiar with the cold weather start cycle if there is one. Never gave it much thought when I was with the fire department because cold weather starting was never an issue. We just got in the truck turned the switches on and pushed the buttons. Is there a heat cycle of glow plugs associated with an ENDT675? Is there a safe and reliably sequence to starting the engine during cold weather that I should be aware of? There is a plug on the driver side bottom jump seat area of the dog box. I'm assuming it is for a block heater. Do I just keep the truck plugged in and not worry?   
 

[Freightrain]

Well, I would not keep it plugged in all winter for no reason.   Just plug it in a few hours before you want to move it(depending on temp, longer).  Hold it to the floor, crank for 15-20 seconds.  Depending on if it wants to start, release starter, let cool for a moment, try again.  My old 673 would start at 19* temp with NO ether.  But it had 4 batteries and would spin it fast without trying.  Keep your batteries inside, only put them in truck if you need to start it.  Keep them charged up.

If the motor is not plum wore out, it should start pretty easy at normal winter temps.  Sub zero?  Might take some persuasion.

I've never had my current 237 out in the cold to try starting it.  It sits in garage all winter, keeps about 45*.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Freightrain

[tenfive0]

I can keep my CF garaged in my shop but there is no heat 24/7. I only have the heat on when I'm working. During non working hours the heat is off because it would cost me a small fortune to heat the place when I'm not there. I've owned few Dodge Cummins Diesels. I currently have a 1994 Chevy Heavy Duty with a 6.5 Diesel. The Cummins had a pre-start heat cycle without glow plugs. If I plugged in the Cummins during cold weather the start sequence didn't involve the heat cycle. The 6.5 has glow plugs that have to be used whenever I start the truck summer or winter plugged in or not. I only plug in the Chevy during cold weather when needed and I'd only plug it the Mack when needed. I wouldn't leave either plugged in the entire winter. Thanks for the advise. I didn't know what to expect and I wasn't sure how the Mack would react with the cold winter months approaching when I'd need to start it. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by tenfive0

[hatcity]

1. make sure your coolant is correct for temps.
2. Does this truck have a manual shut off? if so, hold shut off up and crank until you have oil pressure. then release shut off....this normally is a fuel shut off

[tenfive0]

More good advise.. It has a manual shot off. I'm getting ready to do an oil and coolant change with new filters along with a new fuel filter before it gets to cold.

I hate diesel cold weather starts and try to avoid all unnecessary use during extreme cold conditions. My 6.5 is a pooch and it sounds like it's going to come apart starting it during cold weather. I can't always avoid using the truck because it is for business use.

[hatcity]

Another thing-get fuel conditioner that has anti-gel in it....or a couple gallons of kerosene

[41chevy]

3 hours ago, tenfive0 said:

More good advise.. It has a manual shot off. I'm getting ready to do an oil and coolant change with new filters along with a new fuel filter before it gets to cold.

I hate diesel cold weather starts and try to avoid all unnecessary use during extreme cold conditions. My 6.5 is a pooch and it sounds like it's going to come apart starting it during cold weather. I can't always avoid using the truck because it is for business use.

I have on all my diesels an accumulator set up to pre oil the engine before starting. Holds 2 quarts under about 5 to 8 psi of pressure and when you turn on the ignition it pre lubes it. On start up it refills the accumulator tank. Saves a ton of cold start wear on the internals. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by 41chevy

[tenfive0]

I always mix 1oz per gallon 2 stroke oil with low sulfur diesel fuel and use anti-gel conditioner in the winter.

Interesting, I'm curious to find out more about an accumulator tank.

Edited September 11, 2018 by tenfive0

[41chevy]

10 hours ago, tenfive0 said:

I always mix 1oz per gallon 2 stroke oil with low sulfur diesel fuel and use anti-gel conditioner in the winter.

Interesting, I'm curious to find out more about an accumulator tank.

I've bought 6 from them, the D or F kit with ignition activated controller and solenoid. I feel these kits are the best on the market.

http://www.engineprelube.com/

How it works.

http://www.engineprelube.com/images/Insta-Lube-installation_picture-roll.pdf

Edited September 11, 2018 by 41chevy

[tenfive0]

Winter has arrived. The last few days the temps in this area of the planet have been about 10 degrees below average for this time of the year. So much for global warming. I've been making slow but steady progress getting my CF road worthy. Working out the bugs since August. Tracking down some wiring issues and fixing lights. I blew and oil line and a coolant hose. Lost two gallons of oil and six gallons of coolant. Blew the oil line on October 28th and the coolant line a week later. Fixed both problems with a new line and hose. Also new front wheels and tires mounted this past Monday and state inspection Tuesday. Overnight Monday into Tuesday morning the temperature got down in to the high 20's. Tuesday day morning starting the truck to get it to the state inspection station the truck struggled to start with the temperature so low. It definitely needs the assistance of a plug in block heater when starting during colder weather. I've looked the ENDT 675 engine over and I can't find an obvious location where there is a block heater. There is a plus and wire that leads to nothing that has been obviously cut and terminated by a previous owner for whatever reason. I’m not sure if the plug and wire even went to a block heater. The only thing the wire might have connected to is shown in the attached picture. Is this the block heater or something else? I don’t want to hook up 120 volts of AC power to anything without definitely knowing what I’m hooking up to. The result of not knowing could be SHOCKING.  

   

[HarryS]

Those look like water temp sensors to me.

[41chevy]

Block heater element is a 1 3/4" threaded unit that replaces one of the core plugs on the engine block.I bought one a while ago for my R made by Zero Start  I think the number was  8600880 the box it kind of trashed . The kit was close to $40, fits Mack E6 673 675 676 707 711 engines.

Edited December 6, 2018 by 41chevy

[tenfive0]

11 hours ago, HarryS said:

Those look like water temp sensors to me.

That would make sense. I believe you are correct. When I got my truck the pump panel was removed. The stud without the wire attached probably went to a temp gauge to the pump panel. At least I can give myself credit for not hooking up AC power to the studs. Notice how I didn't say I was smart enough..

I'm going to have to look closer and crawl around to see if the truck might have ever been equipped with a block heater. Could anyone direct me were to look if there is or was a block heater.   

[tenfive0]

9 hours ago, 41chevy said:

Block heater element is a 1 3/4" threaded unit that replaces one of the core plugs on the engine block.I bought one a while ago for my R made by Zero Start  I think the number was  8600880 the box it kind of trashed . The kit was close to $40, fits Mack E6 673 675 676 707 711 engines.

I contacted Zero Start this morning. They sent me an pdf installation guide for a block heater for a 673, 675 and 676 engine. I can confirm my truck is not equipped with a block heater. Where is should be on the engine there is only slotted screw plug. The fun part is going to be trying to remove the plug I'm guessing to install the heater.

[41chevy]

I got mine out with a little heat and a wipe of paraffin wax. The heat wicks the wax in between the threads and aids removal.

[tenfive0]

I'll be firing up the forge and putting the Nazel 2B Air Hammer to work making a slot tool out of 5160 7/8 inch or 1 inch heck alloy steel. I'm be attacking the threads with some Kroil to hopefully loosen up any corrosion that might have accumulated over the past 46 years.

[tenfive0]

Update - I let the my CF-600 sit mostly over the winter. This past weekend with warmer weather I attacked the core/freeze plug to install a block heater to assist with cold weather starts. Removing the plug turned out to be as difficult or even more so then expected. I started out with a tool I forged to fit the slot in the plug with a breaker bar. No luck. I tried the same tool with an impact and wrench. Hammering away with the impact as I used a box wrench on the tool I forged for added leverage. No Luck. I used a Dremel to cut the slot deeper into the plug in an effort for the tool to get a better purchase. I cut into the water jacket and hammered the male end of the forged tool into the slot for a tight fit. I used a breaker bar with a pipe and I wound twisting the tool. I got ugly with the plug with a drill more Dremel, Sawzall, Big F-ing Hammer, a broken cap chisel, broken straight, a bunch of cursing and a few hours later I carefully split the plug it two pieces without damaging any threads in the block and the plug extraction was complete. If there wasn't so much in the way heating the plug with a torch perhaps would have made the job easier.

Edited March 27, 2019 by tenfive0

[JoeH]

One of our yard trucks is hard to start in cold weather. We just hit it with a little ether to get her going. But we only use the truck once every few years just to shuffle it around. Our other yard truck (crane) has a blown head gasket but fires up from a gentle bump of the key. Doesn't really care on the outside temp.  Both are Mack 237 horse motors. 

[tenfive0]

After it all I have the block heater installed so hopefully next winter if I need to use the truck on cold days I'll plug it in and I won't have to use ether. Avoided using the truck this past winter on really cold days. Last time it was started and used was the middle of December. It wasn't extremely cold but the engine struggled to start.