New Mack question?

[Bullheaded]

Yes kscarbel, these are the latest Eaton's in brand new Star's, and some 2 years old at most. But it could also be like what I said about the M-drives....they may not have been spec'd with the proper programs or features? 

I've owned a few different brand trucks and dealt with different local dealers here and haven't found any that knew more about the product than I did. Apparently it doesn't take much to get a job in sales around here, LOL.

[RobM626]

1 hour ago, Bullheaded said:

I see the 445 rating is a lot more popular than the 505. I have read in a few sources they say they pull just as good but have better fuel mileage?

Can't go wrong with an Allison. I can't comment on gearing for them though. I've driven them but never owned one for myself. I do know they are geared a lot lower than a manual.

What do you guys run in NY.....just one lift axle? I wish our government didn't force us to use these ridiculously long trucks. We have 21 foot boxes. So on hourly jobs under the shovel they just over load you that much more. 

I have 266 inch wheelbase, 20 and 46's also. Running 4.30 gears with 18 speed manual and 22.5 rubber. Not great for fuel mileage but probably better for DPF. Plus I am all hills here. And because of this SPIF law with the self equalizing steering lift axle it is working out better to use air-ride suspension, which I already was anyway. The load cells on mechanical suspensions hasn't proved to be as reliable as far as it working properly.

I miss the articulation of my old HMX rubber block and Camelback though. And I find I get more odd tire wear with the air ride. But the air ride is better in sand and doesn't washboard the haul roads up as much. But you have to play with the dump valve lots to get traction in uneven ground.

I would like the 485 or 505 but I gotta see the price difference and see if it’s worth it

we usually run one big lift axle that matches front tires so we’re not buying different tire sizes and can rotate the fronts to the pusher if need be.

yea we need the wb to legally carry a half decent load. If I’m in nyc I can only carry like 56,000 once I leave the 5 boroughs I can carry 72,000, so the longer the better but then it’s a bitch to drive in the city when it’s too long and you got cars parked everywhere and can’t make turns.

im unsure about the air rides. They must be very comfortable to drive but I get nervous about the stability and traction of them. I love the camelback . It’s rough riding but reliable. I like them better than the Hendrickson too. I notice a lot more people running 22.5 rubber as well

[Mack Technician]

IMO- If the machine has exclusive rights to logically regulate torque to the transmission, and take the ability of the driver to create a shock load condition, the new concepts can be paperweight light (Single countershaft). We are seeing it in our machines. They come with optishift. You can’t shock the trans unless you hit a concrete wall wide open. You can be going forward at top speed in the Volvo and throw it into a reverse drop. Machine decels engine, applies brakes logically and shifts the trans at a low speed threshold, repowers the engine to whatever percentage your foot demands and your heading the other direction. It happens fast and hard, faster than an operator could negotiate a direction change and all within a “safe” parameter. 

Not flawless.....Do it enough at high speed and you eventually have a brake overheat. On an ice sheet your about to have a free carousel ride and make a lot of body work for the mechs. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Mack Technician

[RobM626]

38 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

But the Mack brand M-drive, a rebadged Volvo I-shift, only has one countershaft. Can one work? Obviously it's possible with precautions taken, but my personal preference from experience is to divide the load stress between two. Eaton and market leader ZF, for example, all have two.

On Eaton, we've seen almost 4 jumps in tech since their original AMT.....be sure you try their current product before your judge.

You have a point there.Multiple points!

[Maxidyne]

All the AMTs (Automated Manual Transmissions) are primarily designed for highway use, though Allison's AMT which has a torque converter might thus tolerate urban and off road use better. Volvo's single countershaft I-Shift AMT seems to do OK in highway use, probably because Volvo very tightly limits it's applications so it stays in direct drive most of the time. Then there's the iShift's $$$ 5 digit+labor rebuild price and only 5 year warranty- Many seasonal users in construction, logging, farming, etc. need to keep a truck much longer than the iShift's 5 year warranty. I'd go with the Allison automatic, though Volvo seems to demand a pretty big upcharge for it, probably to encourage you to buy their iShift. Power wise, above 455 HP Volvo really jacks up the extended warranty price.

[RobM626]

13 minutes ago, Maxidyne said:

All the AMTs (Automated Manual Transmissions) are primarily designed for highway use, though Allison's AMT which has a torque converter might thus tolerate urban and off road use better. Volvo's single countershaft I-Shift AMT seems to do OK in highway use, probably because Volvo very tightly limits it's applications so it stays in direct drive most of the time. Then there's the iShift's $$$ 5 digit+labor rebuild price and only 5 year warranty- Many seasonal users in construction, logging, farming, etc. need to keep a truck much longer than the iShift's 5 year warranty. I'd go with the Allison automatic, though Volvo seems to demand a pretty big upcharge for it, probably to encourage you to buy their iShift. Power wise, above 455 HP Volvo really jacks up the extended warranty price.

It would be nice if Mack was able to take the reigns and design and build their own motors and transmissions again. I don’t think there’s one thing I actually like about Volvo’s products.

not that Europeans don’t make a good product. They’re ahead of us with all types of technologies. But Americans did know how to make a tough and good looking truck

[kscarbel2]

44 minutes ago, Mack Technician said:

IMO- If the machine has exclusive rights to logically regulate torque to the transmission, and take the ability of the driver to create a shock load condition, the new concepts can be paperweight light (Single countershaft). We are seeing it in our machines. They come with optishift. You can’t shock the trans unless you hit a concrete wall wide open. You can be going forward at top speed in the Volvo and throw it into a reverse drop. Machine decels engine, applies brakes logically and shifts the trans at a low speed threshold, repowers the engine to whatever percentage your foot demands and your heading the other direction. It happens fast and hard, faster than an operator could negotiate a direction change and all within a “safe” parameter. 

Not flawless.....Do it enough at high speed and you eventually have a brake overheat. On an ice sheet your about to have a free carousel ride and make a lot of body work for the mechs. 

Optishift is the right idea, but Voith's VIAB is light years ahead of it.

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[kscarbel2]

17 minutes ago, RobM626 said:

It would be nice if Mack was able to take the reigns and design and build their own motors and transmissions again. I don’t think there’s one thing I actually like about Volvo’s products.

not that Europeans don’t make a good product. They’re ahead of us with all types of technologies. But Americans did know how to make a tough and good looking truck

Almost every new technology launches in North America was introduced 5 to 8 years before in Europe.

American's want low price, so we get decontented low-cost trucks (and cars), versus what is sold in Europe. You'll realize this when attending the IAA show in Germany. The truckmakers can't offer the new tech in North America until they're forced to by regulation, or until such time customers are willing to pay up for it. Even the China truck market (world's largest) is seeing features not yet offered in the US market.

I myself like a good looking truck.......and am also focused on rugged/durable, as well as fuel economy, overall engineering, comfort, durability, parts costs and service.

[RobM626]

9 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

Optishift is the right idea, but Voith's VIAB is light years ahead of it.

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Wow...I’m impressed. Especially with that VIAB!

[kscarbel2]

50 minutes ago, Maxidyne said:

All the AMTs (Automated Manual Transmissions) are primarily designed for highway use, though Allison's AMT which has a torque converter might thus tolerate urban and off road use better. Volvo's single countershaft I-Shift AMT seems to do OK in highway use, probably because Volvo very tightly limits it's applications so it stays in direct drive most of the time. Then there's the iShift's $$$ 5 digit+labor rebuild price and only 5 year warranty- Many seasonal users in construction, logging, farming, etc. need to keep a truck much longer than the iShift's 5 year warranty. I'd go with the Allison automatic, though Volvo seems to demand a pretty big upcharge for it, probably to encourage you to buy their iShift. Power wise, above 455 HP Volvo really jacks up the extended warranty price.

If one uses increased levels of heat treatment and heavier bearings, also easily done but of course with added costs, a single countershaft is doable. For on-road, the Mercedes-Benz Powershift 3 is an acceptable single countershaft AMT (sold in North America as the Detroit DT12). But I prefer twin countershafts.

[Maxidyne]

True, but Volvo has yet to convince me as they've been real secretive about what's inside their iShifts. For years I'd ask the Volvo people at trade shows if they could show me an iShift that'd made it a million miles without a rebuild and never got an answer. Finally found a fleet that's gotten a million+ miles from their iShifts, but they haul light and pretty much on the interstates.

[kscarbel2]

ZF's AS Tronic is perhaps the world's finest heavy truck AMT. Note at 1:14 the two countershaft design.

As I've mentioned before, and can be confirmed by any relevant Mack engineers, they were planning an AMT variant of the "world's best" triple-countershaft Mack Maxitorque transmission, but Volvo Group killed the project.

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[Maxidyne]

Typical Volvo... Always first with the cheapest solution!

 

[Mack Technician]

Lol, those suckers are cheap! I call it precision generic so the bean counters  don’t feel buyers remorse. The indignation of going back to a hand primer pump on the Volvo fuel filters instead of a Deere or Cat with electric primer everything..... If Volvo wasn’t so cheap, and used an electric lift, all those failing-injector-trucks might actually prime and start instead of trying to inject leaked combustion gas. Take it a step forward and trick it with a “wait to start” light so the rail can Re-prime. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Mack Technician

[m16ty]

In my opinion, either keep what you have or go with a glider. I don’t care for all the crap they put on these new diesels.

like one of the earlier people said, who wants to sit through a 45 min parked regen? That’s not counting all the other mess they put on the engine that is going to cause you problems sooner or later.

[Mack Technician]

1 hour ago, m16ty said:

In my opinion, either keep what you have or go with a glider. I don’t care for all the crap they put on these new diesels.

like one of the earlier people said, who wants to sit through a 45 min parked regen? That’s not counting all the other mess they put on the engine that is going to cause you problems sooner or later.

Friday I ran into a friend who runs wood to our facility. He told me there are three loads of wood in a day. The last load is the only one you make money on. There is rarely four loads due to scale hours and distance to wood landings. One parked regen and he has a zero profit day. The thing that irks him is there is nothing he can do about it and no one to complain to. 

[r686st]

So do the new Mack Granites not "regen" on the move? I thought the parked regen was an issue with the previous generation only?

[Bullheaded]

Yes they all regen passively while driving. IF....you keep them running long enough and under enough load to complete it. If you are running too slow under light loads like in stop and go city traffic they will call for a parked regen.

 

They will also call for a parked regen when one of the many parts of the system fails (and they will) and it plugs up, LOL.

 

Basically the systems were designed for a long haul truck in warm climates, LOL.