JimmySignature Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Hello all, I recently purchased a 2003 CH613 with an E-7 (pre-emissions) to get started in trucking. I have no experience and I usually attend the school of hard knocks and teach myself as long as it is safe. A friend of mine has some extra work from time to time and I have always wanted to get into trucking, he offered to ride with me and show me the ropes when he is not busy. I am an auto tech and fabricator by trade, no diesel experience. The truck has 900,000 miles on it and a miss when it is cold. I got it for a good deal and it is in nice shape. I noticed when the truck warms up it idles well (possibly eliminates the miss) and hold 20# on the oil pressure. There is significant blowby from the tube under the engine and it looks like clear water that drips...... I am guessing that is condensation from the excessive blowby. No visible water in the oil, and goes down the road well. I was thinking that if it pulls OK enough for a rookie under load I might be able to push off a rebuild for a while. My rookie question is obviously this truck needs an inframe but when is it mandatory. The previous owner says it doesn't use oil but then again I was handing him a stack of cash.... Can DOT get me for blowby (there are steady puffs from the tube at idle)?? If the engine runs cool and has good oil pressure am I doing other damage? Is there a good trick to verify the miss when warm?.... I can't just disable the spark plug lol, or use my snap on scan tool to kill the injector and watch my RPMs Could something be making this blowby worse than it is? I read about other things that causing high crankcase pressure, obviously, the 900k is the major concern. I know the inframe is going to be expensive even if I try and do it myself and it will, of course, open a bigger can of worms than I can possibly plan for. I am just curious if I can drive it for a few months learn a little about the business and maybe save up some money. Great Info on here.... This site convinced me to buy a MACK 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mack Technician Posted January 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) Welcome Jim. This IS a great site to learn stuff. Wide diversity of people and Mack experience. Run it. Do oil sampling to see how much metal is on the move inside your engine, don’t want an inspection hole in engine block. Blowby is legal in 50 states. Water is condensate or evaporation of coolant, oil test will verify if it’s only condensate. Knock the chrome covers off EUPs on right side. Make a 3” jumper wire. Start cold. Short out EUPs one at a time to see which hole won’t wake up cold. A tune up with injector tips is a cheap refresher if you can do most of it yourself. Takes minimal knowledge and a good book. If you rebuild, those parts are good for reuse..... so no loss. A free engine manual download is available for OEM engine rebuild and procedures. Go to search window and enter “makeshift manometer” and you’ll find my directions to build a blowby gauge. That will give you a solid number if you want one. Edited January 10, 2019 by Mack Technician 3 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmySignature Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Thanks for the reply. I will put the blowby aside for now... I appreciate you giving me a clear path on that. Is there a good company to run the oil sample?? I had the lightning bolt on the dash and got some codes 8-3 and 8-5 late last night after I read about the cruise control trick on here! Checked it again this morning and had 8-1, 8-2, 8-3, 8-5. I will try to short out the terminals in the morning as you suggested, to try and find the dead cylinder. Curious if these eup codes matter on a cold old engine. Another quick question. Seems like only the rear passenger tire is spinning (almost like I am on ice) when I was trying to pull up a very very slight incline into my shop. I used the power divider to get in. Almost seemed like it got worse as the airbags filled up. Broken axle in the front tandem maybe ?? Thanks Jimmy Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
h67st Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, JimmySignature said: Another quick question. Seems like only the rear passenger tire is spinning (almost like I am on ice) when I was trying to pull up a very very slight incline into my shop. I used the power divider to get in. Almost seemed like it got worse as the airbags filled up. Broken axle in the front tandem maybe ?? Thanks Jimmy No broken axle...the diff will let one wheel spin when it doesn't have traction. That's normal. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxidyne Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 If you've got the Henderson air ride suspension, it's notorious for that. I drove a '99 CH tandem tractor for a while that would light up the "traction control" idiot light anytime you took a corner halfway fast when running light. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Technician Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) Only thing to pay attention to is someone screwing up the suspension assemblies. I'm working on a truck right now that sits crooked. When you look at the Z-spring members it doesn't even touch the front hanger on the RFRear, I can stick my fingers in the gap between the spring front slipper pad and spring strike-side. Whoever did the spring work put the wrong spacer in between axle and spring member. One side spring spacer is tapered for caster and opposite side is perfectly flat and square. In the case of what I have you can get an uneven load to one wheel, esp when bobtail. In the mid/early 2000’s Mack over sensitized the fault parameters and we occasionally got ghost codes on working EUP’s. It seemed to have come in with the CCRS vintages. They changed the software to lessen, or desensitize, the ghost code issue/parameter. If you change the EUPs the codes will likely disappear, but I’d require them to show a running issue before changing out. Example-your cold miss could be a failing magnet in the specific EUP your coding on and justify a new one. Aftermarket vendors are selling those pumps cheap, so it may be a worthwhile investment. Edited January 11, 2019 by Mack Technician Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmySignature Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Thanks for the ideas on the suspension, if some of this is normal how do you guys bobtail these trucks? I have been told not to use the power divider but without it, I can hardly move this truck in the yard! The surface is dry packed gravel, it even slips real bad on the pavement..... sucks being such a rookie. Back to my rough running, missing 900k engine, lol. I shorted out across the terminal of the number 1 EUP and the truck shut off immediately???. I cleaned up the terminals and was wondering if there is a simple resistance check across the terminals I can do while the wires are off? Threw on the Ohm meter on but it was all over the place, at a quick glance a few seemed to be shorted. Is there a preferred aftermarket part number to replace my 313GC5230M (Found an old Mack invoice that they were all changed about 10 years ago in the truck). What is a good price for them and which website do you guys like to get them from? Thanks Again Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Technician Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 www.ksfuel.com if you have the OEM part number call a PAI dealer and you can also save 20%-30% Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmySignature Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Thanks, I will give them a call. Any further help testing the EUP's, not sure if my previous post made sense of shorting them out and the truck cutting completely off?? I don't want to just randomly replace them, the codes on the dash seem inconsistent which makes sense based on your previous explanation of them be overly sensitive. I would like to ID the bad ones and swap em out. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Technician Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Clueless.....I short them constantly at work and never kill a healthy, running, engine beyond the target cylinder. Are you contacting them to each other or to a dead ground? Break them(terminals) loose at one side and retighten lightly so you can use the one wire to remove and dead out cylinder. Keep in mind these terminals get seized easily, if they won’t loosen, don’t force them. I don’t have the resistance spec available....I’m not at work. Keep in mind you need to disconnect one side of the EUP to get a legitimate, clean, reading. Otherwise you are including a harness and ECU in your math. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmySignature Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 I got all of them loose and cleaned them up. I was placing a jumper wire across the 2 terminals on an individual EUP. When I did this the truck stalled. I did not touch any terminals to a dead ground. I just tried what you said about slipping of the terminal at idle and it seems like #2 for sure is not doing much if anything, the other ones I can hear / feel a difference when removed. Seems like #2 may be contributing but slightly. When I pull the wire off the terminal does that shut fuel down completely or just lower down the pressure?? When the truck is a 1000 rpm I can hold it and the miss is far worse, it shakes the cab. If I could hold it steady and check it at that RPM I may have a more clear cut answer of what cylinders are not pulling their weight. Thanks Again Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickfarms Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 I use the power divider frequently I have been told not to use it any more than necessary on dry pavement and never engage the power divider when the truck is moving I have a 1989 truck with 25,000 miles on it with the Hendrickson four spring suspension on it and it would spin a tire on the driveway and not move until I locked the power divider when it was empty. This problem went a way when we replaced the suspension bushings, they were cracked and seized from lack of use. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Technician Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) When there’s no power to the EUP you will flow-through an open center. IOW- If your running 80 psi in your fuel rail...that’s the amount of pressure against the injector tip. If a tip leaks or cracks you get rail flow into the cylinder and lotsa smoke. Injection doesn’t occur till the 80 PSI fuel is trapped & compressed when the magnet induces port closure. Edited January 12, 2019 by Mack Technician Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 50 minutes ago, Quickfarms said: I use the power divider frequently I have been told not to use it any more than necessary on dry pavement and never engage the power divider when the truck is moving I have a 1989 truck with 25,000 miles on it with the Hendrickson four spring suspension on it and it would spin a tire on the driveway and not move until I locked the power divider when it was empty. This problem went a way when we replaced the suspension bushings, they were cracked and seized from lack of use. If you are going slow before you get into something slick you can engage power divider, you just can't engage when wheels are spinning that is where you have to come to a stop and engage the divider. I have done this for 40 years on macks and no divider troubles. terry 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, terry said: If you are going slow before you get into something slick you can engage power divider, you just can't engage when wheels are spinning that is where you have to come to a stop and engage the divider. I have done this for 40 years on macks and no divider troubles. terry Agree; if you think you might need it put in before spinning; same goes for 4wd vehicles. Saves you trouble Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-412999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickfarms Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I have seen quite a few over the road trucks in which it looks like you can't lock to power divider Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55249-to-inframe-or-not-to-inframe/#findComment-413060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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