Roto brake can?

[ws721]

What is so special about a "Roto" brake can for the sterr axle on a 20K front axle in a 96 RD that Mack wants $744.85 per brake can?  I installed a standard type 24 can. Its doing the job.  Never seen a Roto can. It bolt together

[terry]

20 minutes ago, ws721 said:

What is so special about a "Roto" brake can for the sterr axle on a 20K front axle in a 96 RD that Mack wants $744.85 per brake can?  I installed a standard type 24 can. Its doing the job.  Never seen a Roto can. It bolt together

Love to hear the answer on this, where I used to work we always changed these brake cans to the regular ones with no problems.   terry

[kscarbel2]

Produced by Wagner for Mack, they have significantly more force, a requirement for a 20k axle versus a 12k axle.

That Volvo wants to charge you $744.85 for a $200 component should be a crime.

Volvo doesn't want you operating a 1996 vintage truck. And they want to rinse their hands of "American" Macks.

[ws721]

10 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

Produced by Wagner for Mack, they have significantly more force, a requirement for a 20k axle versus a 12k axle.

That Volvo wants to charge you $744.85 for a $200 component should be a crime.

Volvo doesn't want you operating a 1996 vintage truck. And they want to rinse their hands of "American" Macks.

I was wondering if that brake can had more strength.  That makes sense.  Its now just a plow truck.  Doesn't ever exceed 45 mph & will never haul any weight again.  Thanks for the reply

[grayhair]

11 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

Produced by Wagner for Mack, they have significantly more force, a requirement for a 20k axle versus a 12k axle.

That Volvo wants to charge you $744.85 for a $200 component should be a crime.

Volvo doesn't want you operating a 1996 vintage truck. And they want to rinse their hands of "American" Macks.

Sad state of affairs indeed.

In other news, the global climate change joke's on us.  China, India, N. Korea  are not worried.  Giggling, they prefer to leave the worrying to us.

Edited January 11, 2019 by grayhair

[kscarbel2]

19QE396P5 most likely......we used them on most FAW20 axles.

[kscarbel2]

7 minutes ago, grayhair said:

Sad state of affairs indeed.

In other news, the global climate change joke's on us.  China, India, N. Korea  are not worried.  Giggling, they prefer to leave the worrying to us.

China is immensely worried, and is spending far more than any other country to correct matters in there.

[HeavyGunner]

That's because china has far more to clean up than most. I'm sure all those sweat shops follow epa guidelines like we do. 

[kscarbel2]

3 minutes ago, HeavyGunner said:

That's because china has far more to clean up than most. I'm sure all those sweat shops follow epa guidelines like we do. 

Not true. India and Pakistan, for example, are what you're thinking. China has gone from Euro 1 to Euro 6 in under 20 years. That's quite an accomplishment. The major cities have changed heating plants over from coal to natural gas. Plastic bags are banned. The list goes on and on.

[HeavyGunner]

No China was what I'm thinking. Never said China was the worst but it's awful, remember the olympics? Olympians refused to go there because of horrific air quality from their industrial complexes. That was the same year glyphosate prices went through the roof because the cheap Chinese knockoffs production was halted due to horrible air quality problems that China was trying to put a temporary band aid on. China likes to put on this very progressive modern face on when in reality they're just the opposite. Remember this is the country that has recently banned Winnie the Pooh images. 

[6368]

On 1/10/2019 at 10:08 AM, kscarbel2 said:

Volvo doesn't want you operating a 1996 vintage truck. And they want to rinse their hands of "American" Macks.

 Their parts pricing is attempt to make older macks more expensive to work on.  Example: i got a quote from Transedge last week for door gaskets and cat whiskers on a drivers door (95 RD)....  over $500.  Thats insane. Mack  always had the lowest cost of ownership Volvo certainly fixed that.

[kscarbel2]

42 minutes ago, 6368 said:

 Their parts pricing is attempt to make older macks more expensive to work on.  Example: i got a quote from Transedge last week for door gaskets and cat whiskers on a drivers door (95 RD)....  over $500.  Thats insane. Mack  always had the lowest cost of ownership Volvo certainly fixed that.

$500........for one door???   Please tell me you're pulling my leg.

[6368]

11 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

$500........for one door???   Please tell me you're pulling my leg.

I wish i was.  I just checked Barry's site they are cheaper there $681 thats everything to do both doors.

[Rob]

I buy the "cat whiskers", (door glass run is proper name) in bulk and make my own. Perimeter door seal is also purchased in bulk along with the proper solvent glue to melt it together. Usually, (not always) you can get away from purchasing new OEM seals and do just as good of job. Not quite as "ram and slam" as original, but a lot less expensive overall.

[Quickfarms]

On 1/12/2019 at 8:46 AM, Rob said:

I buy the "cat whiskers", (door glass run is proper name) in bulk and make my own. Perimeter door seal is also purchased in bulk along with the proper solvent glue to melt it together. Usually, (not always) you can get away from purchasing new OEM seals and do just as good of job. Not quite as "ram and slam" as original, but a lot less expensive overall.

Do you have a source and part numbers for R model weather striping?

I need to do the entire doors on two trucks soon

 

[BGarofalo]

On 1/10/2019 at 10:08 AM, kscarbel2 said:

Produced by Wagner for Mack, they have significantly more force, a requirement for a 20k axle versus a 12k axle.

That Volvo wants to charge you $744.85 for a $200 component should be a crime.

Volvo doesn't want you operating a 1996 vintage truck. And they want to rinse their hands of "American" Macks.

Do you have any information on this?  I disagree with parts of this statement. A type 30 roto-chamber has the same force as a standard type 30 brake chamber.  Area of diaphragm in sq/in times pressure.  I was under the impression the main reason behind roto chambers is packaging.  Roto chambers use an elongated diaphragm which “rolls” on its self while traveling the length of its stroke. This allows a smaller overall diameter while still having a large surface are of the diaphragm. 

Now back to your statement, they may have more force for use on heavier axles but not do to it being a stronger chamber.  It’s due to the fact that you can fit a type 36 or 50 chamber on the steer.  

To sum it up a t30 roto has the same force as a t30 standard. A t36 roto has the same force as a t36 standard.  It’s physical size that is the difference. 

[Rob]

5 minutes ago, BGarofalo said:

Do you have any information on this?  I disagree with parts of this statement. A type 30 roto-chamber has the same force as a standard type 30 brake chamber.  Area of diaphragm in sq/in times pressure.  I was under the impression the main reason behind roto chambers is packaging.  Roto chambers use an elongated diaphragm which “rolls” on its self while traveling the length of its stroke. This allows a smaller overall diameter while still having a large surface are of the diaphragm. 

Now back to your statement, they may have more force for use on heavier axles but not do to it being a stronger chamber.  It’s due to the fact that you can fit a type 36 or 50 chamber on the steer.  

To sum it up a t30 roto has the same force as a t30 standard. A t36 roto has the same force as a t36 standard.  It’s physical size that is the difference. 

That has always been my understanding too. Back in the 1970's they were common and not too expensive to rebuild. Nowadays, they are cost prohibitive in a lot of cases. New purchase for an older truck? Hard to justify.

Seen a lot of Mack trucks with 34K cast spiders on the rear changed over from "rotochambers" to type 24/24 cans as they'll physically fit, but don't offer near the braking force the larger chambers do. 

[Rob]

15 hours ago, Quickfarms said:

Do you have a source and part numbers for R model weather striping?

I need to do the entire doors on two trucks soon

No I do not. I closed the shop in 2006 and many of the vendors I used did not survive the 2008 recession. Measure the width, depth, and glass thickness for the glass run channel. Stainless outer bead, or black is about all that's required. There are slotted back and solid back varieties and the retention "finger clips" insert into the slotted back types. Window glass inner and outer "belt" is the same thing and in many instances mounts the same. Door perimeter weatherstrip is another spectrum. Purchase some modeling clay from a hobby store or Wal-Mart, remove the existing perimeter weatherstrip and place several "blocks" of the clay on the side of the pinch weld the weatherstrip to to affix to around the opening. Smear a little petroleum jelly, (Vaseline) onto the door area where the clay will contact the door shell where you want the seal to bear against so the clay doesn't stick. Close the door till the body lines are where you want them, open the door and remove the clay measuring it's thickness from the pinchweld to the mashed face of the clay that bore against the closed door. This is the sealing area. From this derivement, you can ascertain which sealing rolls you need to research and purchase.

Stay away from PVC laced rubber and stay with EPDM rubber in this application. PVC is cheap but won't hold up near as long.

[kscarbel2]

On 1/12/2019 at 5:39 PM, Quickfarms said:

Do you have a source and part numbers for R model weather striping?

I need to do the entire doors on two trucks soon

Per each R/F/U/DM truck, you need 4 pieces of Mack part number 440SX30A (or perhaps it's sold under a Volvo global part number now).

The 440SX30A is for the tracks on the removeable door panel, and the upper section of the door (you'll need to cut/shorten that upper piece).

You only use the included brass retaining clips on the door panel tracks.

The vent window post felt is different, and is (was) sold under a vendor number, 2795-170014005.

The roll-up window "wipers" are Mack part numbers 35RU223 and 35RU224 (2 each).

[kscarbel2]

51 minutes ago, BGarofalo said:

Do you have any information on this?  I disagree with parts of this statement. A type 30 roto-chamber has the same force as a standard type 30 brake chamber [wrong].  Area of diaphragm in sq/in times pressure.  I was under the impression the main reason behind roto chambers is packaging.  Roto chambers use an elongated diaphragm which “rolls” on its self while traveling the length of its stroke. This allows a smaller overall diameter while still having a large surface are of the diaphragm. 

Now back to your statement, they may have more force for use on heavier axles but not do to it being a stronger chamber.  It’s due to the fact that you can fit a type 36 or 50 chamber on the steer.  

To sum it up a t30 roto has the same force as a t30 standard. A t36 roto has the same force as a t36 standard.  It’s physical size that is the difference. [wrong]

Not at my fingertips, no. Mack engineering explained this to me years ago.

[Rob]

On 1/13/2019 at 9:27 AM, kscarbel2 said:

Per each R/F/U/DM truck, you need 4 pieces of Mack part number 440SX30A (or perhaps it's sold under a Volvo global part number now).

The 440SX30A is for the tracks on the removeable door panel, and the upper section of the door (you'll need to cut/shorten that upper piece).

You only use the included brass retaining clips on the door panel tracks.

The vent window post felt is different, and is (was) sold under a vendor number, 2795-170014005.

The roll-up window "wipers" are Mack part numbers 35RU223 and 35RU224 (2 each).

Part numbers sound familiar from the "old days" but for what these numbers used to cost, I could do eight doors with about the same amount of costs involved of two doors using OEM parts. Used to have the office girl make up the weatherstripping and let the guys stay busy repairing wrecks. Kept everybody in a job that way till I tired of it and shut it all down.

[kscarbel2]

On 1/10/2019 at 10:57 PM, HeavyGunner said:

No China was what I'm thinking. Never said China was the worst but it's awful, remember the olympics? Olympians refused to go there because of horrific air quality from their industrial complexes. That was the same year glyphosate prices went through the roof because the cheap Chinese knockoffs production was halted due to horrible air quality problems that China was trying to put a temporary band aid on. China likes to put on this very progressive modern face on when in reality they're just the opposite. Remember this is the country that has recently banned Winnie the Pooh images. 

I was there during the Olympics,. Having toned down the rural factories in surrounding Hebei, the air quality was pretty good.

Pooh hasn’t been banned.....don’t believe everything you read.

[BGarofalo]

11 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

Not at my fingertips, no. Mack engineering explained this to me years ago.

I can’t help but laugh.  Your telling me I’m wrong and your reasoning is because ‘a guy told you so years ago.’  It fits very well with the last post about “not believing everything you read.” 

I’m just trying to get the correct information out there.  There are people here that are looking for an answer (me included) and I’d hate to see bad information be spread.  

[HeavyGunner]

22 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

I was there during the Olympics,. Having toned down the rural factories in surrounding Hebei, the air quality was pretty good.

Pooh hasn’t been banned.....don’t believe everything you read.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/07/china-reportedly-bans-disneys-winnie-the-pooh-film-after-xi-compariso.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2018/08/03/christopher-robin-banned-china-ongoing-war-winnie-the-pooh/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/08/07/christopher-robin-wont-play-china-amid-government-censorship-winnie-pooh/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4c8950e3a719

seems to me Winnie the Pooh was/is banned. 

[ZDB]

Bendix service data bulletin SD-02-1336 states rotochamber out put as a function of area and input psi example: type 30 rotochamber with 60psi = 1800 pounds.

https://www.bendixvrc.com/itemDisplay.asp?documentID=2395

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by ZDB