FDNY 343 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Hi All, I have a 1955 B85 Fire Engine, going over my rig for the first time I realized the Master Cylinder was empty. I filled it and went around to bleed all the brakes. All was good, pedal felt high and firm. Came in the garage this afternoon and there was a puddle under the Master Cylinder area, I checked the Master and it was empty. Upon further inspection I noticed it was leaking from under the front boot are. I pulled the Master and took it apart to check it out and came to find the cap (which didn't fit well at all) must allowed for years of debris to get into the brake fluid chamber which made it's way down into the piston area, it was almost a 1/4 filled with sludge, piston had sludge all over etc.. I started to clean everything and now have found pitting in the piston area, the piston and a few other areas. I was wondering if anyone has any of these for sale or know where to get one if possible. It's a Wagner Lockheed CG27. Any help would be much appreciated. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarnall Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 You might be able to get one at NAPA. Take the old one with you. I had mine rebuilt by White Post Restoration in Virginia. The put a sleeve in them and guarantee them for life. It costs a couple hundred dollars but I think it is worth it. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, FDNY 343 said: Hi All, I have a 1955 B85 Fire Engine, going over my rig for the first time I realized the Master Cylinder was empty. I filled it and went around to bleed all the brakes. All was good, pedal felt high and firm. Came in the garage this afternoon and there was a puddle under the Master Cylinder area, I checked the Master and it was empty. Upon further inspection I noticed it was leaking from under the front boot are. I pulled the Master and took it apart to check it out and came to find the cap (which didn't fit well at all) must allowed for years of debris to get into the brake fluid chamber which made it's way down into the piston area, it was almost a 1/4 filled with sludge, piston had sludge all over etc.. I started to clean everything and now have found pitting in the piston area, the piston and a few other areas. I was wondering if anyone has any of these for sale or know where to get one if possible. It's a Wagner Lockheed CG27. Any help would be much appreciated. Do you have the casting number off the master? Should start wit FE-******* Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDNY 343 Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 Yarnall ~ I'm going to try Napa tomorrow, 41chevy I tried uploading a picture of it a few times but the system keeps telling me failed. Anyway the molded number in the side say's CG 27 I assumed that was the model number....No? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, FDNY 343 said: Yarnall ~ I'm going to try Napa tomorrow, 41chevy I tried uploading a picture of it a few times but the system keeps telling me failed. Anyway the molded number in the side say's CG 27 I assumed that was the model number. o? Casting number and Lockheed Wagner name as in first photos. The FE numbers are stamp cast in the body as in the second photos. The FE-??? will cross to current model Raybestos unit according to my books. Edited January 14, 2019 by 41chevy Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDNY 343 Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 Yes you’re correct, FE 777 but not showing anything at NAPA Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Does it look like this? If so, the NAPA # is NMC M2842. Used on Diamond T's and Internationals. https://shop.industrialbrakeandclutch.com/BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-1-3-4-BORE-FE777-M284249.htm Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 13 hours ago, j hancock said: Does it look like this? If so, the NAPA # is NMC M2842. Used on Diamond T's and Internationals. https://shop.industrialbrakeandclutch.com/BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-1-3-4-BORE-FE777-M284249.htm If the mounting holes are the same the only difference is the OEM is a 1 1/2 bore as opposed to the NAPA 1 3/4 bore. Just a tad more line pressure. Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDNY 343 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 Yes jhancock that’s the one. NAPA was able to find it, should be here in the morning. Now for Brake Shoes, Drums and Muffler and both Pipes ~ Head / Tail pipes. We have a few truck shops here, Is there anything online that I can go to and order a Muffler package? What do you guys do? Thanks for all your input and advice, much needed. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDNY 343 Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 I was able to get a new Master Cylinder from NAPA, I installed it today, did a vacuum of bleed on each wheel, topped of the master, started her up and when I hit the brake pedal .... to the floor it went. No Brakes, I tried pumping them a few times, looked under the rig....no leaks that I can see.... Still No Brakes. I'm going to try the old school brake bleeding tomorrow and see what happens. Any thoughts or ideas what else could be the problem ? How exactly does the vacuum canister work in the braking system ? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainCrutch Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Was the truck on when you were pumping the brakes? Only thing I can think of at the moment that might have anything to do with them not working. Quote Who needs a back yard when you could have a Yard?! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDNY 343 Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 I didn't have it running when I bled them. I used the Venturi vacuum system from Harbor Freight to bleed each line. I kept topping off the master as I went along. Some brown crappy fluid came out and it appeared that overall the flushing of the system went well. Prior to starting it I topped off the master again, started her up, released the emergency brake and pushed on the brake peddle (Rig was running) and to the floor it went. I tried pumping it a few times but it didn't work..... no brakes. I looked again at each wheel and under the truck and I don't see any fluid leaks. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) Push rod length and pedal travel correct? Bench bleed the master before you installed it? Edited January 16, 2019 by 41chevy Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDNY 343 Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 It appears to be, I was just reading on another thread about having to bleed a Hydrovac? Is that the tank on the Drivers side that the 1 brake line off the Master goes to? Is there a bleeding procedure for that? Someone said bleed that first, then go to furthest wheel cylinder which would be passenger side rear I would imagine and start bleeding from there. I'm unfamiliar with the Hydrovac System if that is in fact what is on this truck. I just assumed they were Hydraulic/Mechanical. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) The Hydrovac unit has a master cylinder on it that works by vacuum needs to be be bleed. Generally they need to be pressure bleed with 10 or 20 psi. BUT what I done without a power bleeder is to just crack the rear bleeders for an hour plus and let gravity go to work (be sure to keep checking the master cylinder for fluid). Then repeat on the front brakes. They some times get air bound between the main master and the Hydravac master. Edited January 16, 2019 by 41chevy Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55292-1955-model-b85-master-cylinder/#findComment-413382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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