fjh Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Just asking for feed back purposes! We have quite a few running in our area now with few problems so far We have a small glitch with one running rough at the moment interment issue we think maybe a fuel rail regulator may have connection problem, the plug looks iffy ,Not throwing up codes But we have heard rumors! They have lots of stock on the little harness and the solenoid could be a good thing maybe a bad thing ! Any words? Kind or otherwise! 😅 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 There is a service bulletin on the harness under the valve cover and the sensor on the fuel rail. I can’t remember if it’s the rail pressure sensor or the pressure regulator. We have 2 common rail Mack’s in our fleet and both were repaired due to fault codes. The fault codes caused no performance issues. Other than that, any other issues we had were corrected with software updates . Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 “New” common rail? Did they come out with something besides that Mickey Mouse thing they call common rail? 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, 1965 said: “New” common rail? Did they come out with something besides that Mickey Mouse thing they call common rail? Nope same old same old! Surprisingly enough the dollar store HP common rail seems to work fine ! Time will tell! C how it goes! Edited February 10, 2019 by fjh 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mackpro said: There is a service bulletin on the harness under the valve cover and the sensor on the fuel rail. I can’t remember if it’s the rail pressure sensor or the pressure regulator. We have 2 common rail Mack’s in our fleet and both were repaired due to fault codes. The fault codes caused no performance issues. Other than that, any other issues we had were corrected with software updates . Thanx Pro got a E service going on it they have said to continue toward the two replacement items We do have a performance issue ! no codes C how it plays out ! Lucky for us its snowing this week so most dump truck jobs will be shut down for a bit give us time to get the fix tryed! 😅 Edited February 10, 2019 by fjh Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbigrig Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 We have been playing with common rail engines for over a year now. We had them in the Volvos months before the Macks. Lots of pressure sensor failures under the valve cover. A few of the same harness and about half a dozen injector failures. A couple of the plunger injectors became quite noisy through the valve cover. Also issues with the AHI module that is now part of the fuel filter housing. All in All, Mickey mouse design and an engineering step backwards. Can't upload any pics of the tear downs I have in my phone. Wish the system was external with a high pressure pump. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post james j neiweem Posted February 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 13, 2019 You know what belongs under the valve covers? Valve train components and nothing more. 4 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 So I'm fishing for info here we have the afore mentioned truck sits over night ,it starts clean then ten seconds or so into the run it starts missing and stumbling like its passing an air bubble past the injectors then cleans up and runs Ok No CODES ! Now the guy is quite fussy and is not happy with this anomaly that has started here with in the last couple of days Is been cold here 5 or so below freezing not sure if this has anything to do with it however! not sure where the check valves would be on the system or if its loose its prime on the high side or the low side of the system , the fix we thought might repair this the rail sensor and harness did not correct this condition ! Having Zero experience with this fuel system its going to be hard to nail this down ! Searching for clues to this issue if anyone has ANY experiences feel free to pipe up! Should we be Taking an oil sample to see if there maybe fuel in the oil ? using the pretense that where there is Air there is likely a fuel leak??? No visible leaks on the outside!!! Reasonable Opinions? Setting fire to it Is not an option At this point! 😁 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Any kind of "cold enrichment" type solenoid or transmitters in the system? If it's a consistent time before the symptom reveals it's appearance, the problem is usually something related to input sampling. Does the symptom show only after initial start and is gone till the next engine start several hours later, or if the engine is shut right off, will the symptom reappear again after restart? Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rob said: Any kind of "cold enrichment" type solenoid or transmitters in the system? If it's a consistent time before the symptom reveals it's appearance, the problem is usually something related to input sampling. Does the symptom show only after initial start and is gone till the next engine start several hours later, or if the engine is shut right off, will the symptom reappear again after restart? Rob These are definite questions to be worked thru ! Because its so long between getting parts and trying stuff its hard to Gauge ! Seems to be an overnite or parked a day or so anomaly at this point! I have suggested getting an oil sample done at this point we will see if that suggestion get any action from the gurus! The sound is reminiscent of An air pocket on a normal fuel system! Seems to clear after a minute or so of running If We find a fix I will post it! .Macpro Said above there is a rail reg and preasure sensor !We changed out the reg and the harness to it as the plug looked to be getting warm! He went to school on this system I how ever are on the outside looking in! 😥 Edited February 15, 2019 by fjh Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 hours ago, fjh said: So I'm fishing for info here we have the afore mentioned truck sits over night ,it starts clean then ten seconds or so into the run it starts missing and stumbling like its passing an air bubble past the injectors then cleans up and runs Ok No CODES ! Now the guy is quite fussy and is not happy with this anomaly that has started here with in the last couple of days Is been cold here 5 or so below freezing not sure if this has anything to do with it however! not sure where the check valves would be on the system or if its loose its prime on the high side or the low side of the system , the fix we thought might repair this the rail sensor and harness did not correct this condition ! Having Zero experience with this fuel system its going to be hard to nail this down ! Searching for clues to this issue if anyone has ANY experiences feel free to pipe up! Should we be Taking an oil sample to see if there maybe fuel in the oil ? using the pretense that where there is Air there is likely a fuel leak??? No visible leaks on the outside!!! Reasonable Opinions? Setting fire to it Is not an option At this point! 😁 We had several bad reman injectors that caused a similar issue. Truck would start and run fine for about 2 seconds and die. On a few we saw fuel in the oil , some we didn’t . We put 60 psi air pressure into the the fuel galley in the side of the head and capped off the pressure relief valve. Sprayed the injector plungers and body down with soapy water. We also bumped the engine over and re-checked with plungers up and down. This was on non common rail engines though. What’s last 6 of vin and model Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 Pro We have put the ball back in the park of E service dudes ! We followed what few steps that were available thru PTT and just for giggles we flashed everything again today see how it starts in the morning! We are going to take an oil sample and see if we got any dilution had no sample kits or that would have got done today ! The truck is 2018 gu so we got to follow the rules Of engagement as you know!This unit has had no issues up till the snow started flying and the 6-7 below freezing temps so my be it just don't like the cold, who does? a shrinking o ring or something not even sure its an air bubble just sounds like it! The new filter head has more check valves in it than Carter has pills. In typical fashion they have created a more expensive filter head that encompasses the HI Function in it so if something fails inside it you got to replace a 2000 dollar part instead of a 500 dollar part! Can't test Jack sh*t ! Can't isolate things properly to get a handle on what is happening! 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macktech689 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 On 2/15/2019 at 10:29 AM, fjh said: So I'm fishing for info here we have the afore mentioned truck sits over night ,it starts clean then ten seconds or so into the run it starts missing and stumbling like its passing an air bubble past the injectors then cleans up and runs Ok No CODES ! Now the guy is quite fussy and is not happy with this anomaly that has started here with in the last couple of days Is been cold here 5 or so below freezing not sure if this has anything to do with it however! not sure where the check valves would be on the system or if its loose its prime on the high side or the low side of the system , the fix we thought might repair this the rail sensor and harness did not correct this condition ! Having Zero experience with this fuel system its going to be hard to nail this down ! Searching for clues to this issue if anyone has ANY experiences feel free to pipe up! Should we be Taking an oil sample to see if there maybe fuel in the oil ? using the pretense that where there is Air there is likely a fuel leak??? No visible leaks on the outside!!! Reasonable Opinions? Setting fire to it Is not an option At this point! 😁 What you are probably dealing with is high oil pressure in the rocker shaft causing low compression when the oil is cold, usually cause by running 15W40 instead of 10W30. Next time you check it cold install the gauge set on the front of the head. rocker pressure should be below 120 kPa, if the pressure goes to 150 kPa report results to tech support. 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbigrig Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 We've had some issues with the newer style fuel filter housings. A couple of strange diaphragm looking parts falling out with the removal of the fuel filter. Not related to this issue, we had a few cam lobes on the camshaft (which are now pressed on) turn out of time. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Macktech689 said: What you are probably dealing with is high oil pressure in the rocker shaft causing low compression when the oil is cold, usually cause by running 15W40 instead of 10W30. Next time you check it cold install the gauge set on the front of the head. rocker pressure should be below 120 kPa, if the pressure goes to 150 kPa report results to tech support. Thanks for your response! A question to your response what is the higher oil pressure doing to cause lack of compression on start up only for 10 to fifteen seconds then clears up? as explained the miss sounds like air in the fuel if this were a normal fuel system! Your expectation could be correct as the engine starts Clean then the miss appears for a brief period after running for a few seconds possibly long enough for the pressure to effect the running not sure didn’t link the two at the time .and the sound is not like the engine brake coming on! Edited February 16, 2019 by fjh Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwell Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) Forgive my ignorance, I'm no true mechanic, just Shady Tree, but how or what is a pressed on cam lobe??? Lobes pressed onto an otherwise perfectly round shaft?? Edited February 17, 2019 by Rockwell 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rockwell said: Forgive my ignorance, I'm no true mechanic, just Shady Tree, but how or what is a pressed on cam lobe??? Lobes pressed onto an otherwise perfectly round shaft?? Sintered cam lobes https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2000-01-0397/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macktech689 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Your problem sounds nearly identical to a common rail I had a couple of weeks ago, cold start misfire. Installing a different solenoid valve to lower the rocker pressure fixed that one. Higher than normal pressure was unseating the brake pistons far enough to slightly open the exhaust valves and lower compression causing the misfire. Just food for thought, take it for what it's worth. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 Ahh now I get where your going with this !🤔 Well if this is the case this issue will probably disappear until the next cold snap we now have a little warmer weather we will see next week if it smartens up The comment about the oil May be part of the issue as well not sure what oil is being used here, using a lower viscosity oil May affect this situation! What I don't Get is the situation is only momentary at start up lasts as long as it would take to pass an air bubble thru a system after service! 10 - 30 seconds or so! One would think it would take longer run time than that, to change the viscosity of the oil to make that valve reduce the pressure! Your comment also begs the question When was the oil last changed? Another unasked / unanswered question! 🙄 Thanx for the input Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-415993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 On 2/17/2019 at 9:36 AM, Macktech689 said: Your problem sounds nearly identical to a common rail I had a couple of weeks ago, cold start misfire. Installing a different solenoid valve to lower the rocker pressure fixed that one. Higher than normal pressure was unseating the brake pistons far enough to slightly open the exhaust valves and lower compression causing the misfire. Just food for thought, take it for what it's worth. On 2/16/2019 at 11:56 AM, Macktech689 said: What you are probably dealing with is high oil pressure in the rocker shaft causing low compression when the oil is cold, usually cause by running 15W40 instead of 10W30. Next time you check it cold install the gauge set on the front of the head. rocker pressure should be below 120 kPa, if the pressure goes to 150 kPa report results to tech support. So as we disgust! after our little cold snap here this problem has disappeared! Did some research and yes 15/40 is being used to service this engine! So were going to assume that this was the cause ! The engine started up clean once the weather warmed up .Were going to assume once the oil pressure comes up the engine brake becomes partly en gauged till the warmer oil from the base flows through the system ! ??? Maybe?🤔 The customer is a little put off now Because his older units all use 15/40 which he buys in bulk and this unit will require 10/30 ! 5 gallon pails I suppose! 😉 Thanx for the ideas ! 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-416302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Thread is a good read, I was perplexed first time I saw a truck that didn't use 15w40 for steering fluid, but older Mack trucks are all I'd driven to that point. Gotta use what the manufacturer tells you to use, doesn't matter if you bought something else in bulk for other trucks. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-416516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 16 hours ago, JoeH said: Thread is a good read, I was perplexed first time I saw a truck that didn't use 15w40 for steering fluid, but older Mack trucks are all I'd driven to that point. Gotta use what the manufacturer tells you to use, doesn't matter if you bought something else in bulk for other trucks. Yup You Are correct ! how ever If you are not privy to all the info you can be led on a wild goose chase like this one! And WE would not have Thought of this scenario if it weren't happening till it was brought to my attention by Macktech689! and being able to experiment with it first hand ! customer has not had issues with using 15/40 up to this point 10/30 now the accepted norm for oil so we all have to adjust to this! Like everything we now have experience! This should be added to a (Rough running when cold ) A topic in Case base reasoning ! 😉 Right at the VERY TOP ! First Question !!! Is your engine equipped with the proper Viscosity oil !🤔 Now that we are aware of the issue He can use this oil during the warmer weather and change over in winter if he needs to ,not a problem ! Comes down to experiences! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/55557-so-how-is-the-new-common-rail-working-out-for-mack/#findComment-416566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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