mack medium duty trucks

[kscarbel2]

5 hours ago, bbigrig said:

It's is going to be a class 7 truck. The Granite MHD is too heavy and too expensive for most class 7 market and some municipal fleets as examples. Back in the fall, A conventional test truck  visited the ex test center for big wigs to have a look at under wraps. It's a Mack product, will not be Volvo branded from what I'm hearing.  Probably a nice light frame with Cummins power (Not sure of what smaller then MP7 Volvo has to offer for this truck) 

There is a market for the baby 8....it was just not thought out, engineered and marketed properly. Freightliner, Paccar and Navistar have been doing well in the class 7 and below market. The class 7 cabover market is too small these days.

Back in the 80s I believe Mack had over 50% of this market.

It will probably resemble the AUS  Metro-liner.

I believe you.

That said, my understanding is the Mack brand is getting a medium truck.

Hmm.

You’re right, the MHD is too expensive....the dealers can’t sell them.

[kscarbel2]

Let's say that I wanted to launch a new Class 6 or Class 7. I myself would choose Class 6 over Class 7, or Class 6 accompanied by a sister Class 7 version (e.g. F-650/F-750), because the non-CDL Class 6 segment is where the volume is, and I can only make money via decent volumes (economy of scale).

Now let's reflect on the past.....Mid-Liner. The bulk of sales were non-CDL MS200P rigids (air-over hydraulic brakes) and MS250P rigids (full air brakes).

Fast forward to the present with, for example Ford. The F-650 outsells the F-750, what Bob, nearly 10 to 1?

And will Volvo offer a gasoline engine option in this Class 7? Reasonable question. After all, North American customers are asking for a gas option. Even Fuso is offering a GM (6.0L) gasoline engine. Ford's new purpose-designed 7.3L gasoline truck engine is here, and the Silverado/Navistar CV is about to land a gasoline engine.

[TS7]

Kscarbel you are right. I still say Ford should build a real medium duty truck cab (larger, higher and tilt hood) for F-550-650. Class 5-6 are becoming more the same size truck. A F-450 is what a F-350 was 20 years ago. A heavy class 7 truck and a true baby 8 truck are more alike now. A F-750 is not a good class 7 truck today. Ford should build a Cargo C-550-650 (7.3 and 6.7), it would sell, they have the dealers to do it. Mack if they are going to get a medium duty truck it would seem that a true baby 8 and heavy class 7 conventional truck is what they need and could sell. The RVI range D would be a small market here I think. But in Europe a Range D is in that size truck class. I wonder if  the future for Mack will be in the day cab municipal, vocational straight truck and day cab tractor market only. They would need lighter frame and 7-9L engine to do some of this. This what I think  and why Volvo will never sell Mack.

[kscarbel2]

3 hours ago, TS7 said:

Kscarbel you are right. I still say Ford should build a real medium duty truck cab (larger, higher and tilt hood) for F-550-650. Class 5-6 are becoming more the same size truck. A F-450 is what a F-350 was 20 years ago. A heavy class 7 truck and a true baby 8 truck are more alike now. A F-750 is not a good class 7 truck today. Ford should build a Cargo C-550-650 (7.3 and 6.7), it would sell, they have the dealers to do it. Mack if they are going to get a medium duty truck it would seem that a true baby 8 and heavy class 7 conventional truck is what they need and could sell. The RVI range D would be a small market here I think. But in Europe a Range D is in that size truck class. I wonder if  the future for Mack will be in the day cab municipal, vocational straight truck and day cab tractor market only. They would need lighter frame and 7-9L engine to do some of this. This what I think  and why Volvo will never sell Mack.

Bob and I agree 150% with you, that Ford should create a purpose-designed medium truck cab. The cost of designing such a cab, today with the use of software, is ridiculously inexpensive.

Realistically......light, medium and heavy each have their own unique cab requirements.

[bbigrig]

I'm betting it won't be equipped with hydraulic brakes. I'm not sure of this, its just a gut feeling. I'm thinking they are going to stick to class 7 only. 

Although popular in the 80s, the late 90s saw the faze out of the 200 midliner series as there was no advantage to customer or maintanance having front hydraulic brakes and rear air brakes. 

There is a class 6 and down market, I just think Mack is too high up in the cost per unit market to play in that very competitive class field of smaller trucks.

I think this truck will be more geared to city delivery/LTL fleets where the idea of the CM baby 8 left off. I know the CM was a flop and the market tanked at the same time.  It's a truck to fill the large un attended med/light duty gap in the Mack lineup since the late 90s.  Wonder of it will be available as a tractor?  

 

[Maxidyne]

Kevin, couple days ago you noted that China has loosened their overall length requirements, allowing the use of an American style short conventional with a short sleeper there. Korea and Vietnam have done similar, in fact International has been dumping a lot of their "MaxForce" trade ins there. Europe will be allowing a half meter more length to improve aerodynamics. I suspect that the current small market for conventionals has scared Ford and others away from tooling up a new heavy conventional... If the market for conventionals expands to Asia and Europe, that makes a new conventional cab heavy truck a viable investment for Ford and others. The downside is that the Chinese will expect to build it there.

[kscarbel2]

Korea will remain a COE market, and I expect Vietnam to as well.

The Chinese government wants to offer another choice, and one reason is government-owned (SOE) Dongfeng Liuzhou (in southern Guangxi Province) has been an ongoing proponent of conventional cab design while the Dongfeng* EQ140 and Jiefang CA141 were discontinued. With the change in regulations, compensating for a conventional's longer wheelbase, a 6x4 conventional can now gross 49 metric tons alike a 6x4 COE.

* Dongfeng Liuzhou and Dongfeng in Hubei Province are two competing truckmakers. Volvo has a thus far unsuccessful JV with the latter.

.

[Red Horse]

3 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

Bob and I agree 150% with you, that Ford should create a purpose-designed medium truck cab. The cost of designing such a cab, today with the use of software, is ridiculously inexpensive.

Realistically......light, medium and heavy each have their own unique cab requirements.

Kevin-we shall see if Ford has any surprises next week at the Work Truck Show in addition to the new 7.3 V-8.  Surprised they let that cat out of the bag a couple of weeks ago.  Good to read your comments about cost of designing a new cab.  I can't believe they (Ford) continue to build 3 cabs at the  Avon Lake plant that builds 650, 750 as well as 450 and 550 chassis cabs.  the 450/550 get the aluminum SD cab while the 650/750 get the steel cab and the E series cut aways still get their old Econoline cab.  Talk about an opportunity for savings!  Or so it would seem to this dummy.

Oh and for sure class 6 at least in the case of Ford is the hot market-you are right-10-1 over class 7.  I did look at totals for 2018 and class 6 was 71,525 units while class 7 was 63,927. 

 And with the new class 6 GM/International JV just starting to hit the dealer lots, Mack thinks they can in essence spend for a new assembly operation and be cost effective?  9 players in class 6 now and 6 in class 7.   

Crowded market as is.

[Lmackattack]

On 2/22/2019 at 6:41 PM, RoadwayR said:

Dealers?  Mack has dealers?

This right here... Just about every "Mack" dealer I know of around me is no longer a dealership. they have all sold out to Truck sales or some other no name company that repair trucks but can also sell you a new KW, volvo or International etc... The last Mack dealer near me that sold out was Northern IL Mack. They sold to M&K but many of the employees stuck around for a while. you can tell it was a mack dealer as they still service alot of macks but the parking lot is no longer filled with new and used trucks like they use to be. all the other M&K dealers look like they sell Volvo only. you might see 2 used macks in the back with 100 new volvos out front for sale

 

[Lmackattack]

On 2/23/2019 at 9:02 AM, kscarbel2 said:

They're too late to attend a now crowded party.

Look at it this way, in the North American market, could they possibly and meaningfully compete in the medium-duty segment? Could they possibly compete with Freughtliner (Daimler) and Navistar in the mid- and high-end medium segment? Could they possibly compete with Ford in the low-end medium segment? The answer is no......so what's the point of such an exercise. Just speaking candidly.

Lets not forget paccar. almost every new field service truck I see is a KW or Pete. Once again Mack is late to the party and they will likely try and sell it like they did with the titan. , to much money for a truck that has no options for the market it is competing in.

I will eat my words if they prove me wrong

[james j neiweem]

KS: If it is  not very expensive for Ford to produce a new medium duty cab then it shouldn't be to much money for Volvo to make an extended hood Pinnacle to take a big bore engine. Now we know that the Mack medium duty is late to the party when is this mystery model scheduled for an appearance. Not to soon I guess as they only have two engineers assigned working out of a storage trailer.

 

 

[Dirtymilkman]

What the hell? China going back to inner tubes?!

[kscarbel2]

On 3/15/2019 at 7:04 AM, Dirtymilkman said:

What the hell? China going back to inner tubes?!

On the entry-level trucks and construction trucks, they remain a customer preference. 

Medium and high-end on-highway have the latest tubeless.

[Rob]

3 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

On the entry-level trucks and construction trucks, they remain a customer preference. 

Medium and high-end on-highway have the latest tubeless.

My first glance at this and I don't think it's a bad looking unit at all. Spartan, sure, but it looks all business to me. Kinda/sorta like a B-61 in it's day and work clothes; simple, and functional.