Granite vs T800 and T880

[james j neiweem]

Anyone out there have these in their fleet and how do they stack up. I know Mack says the Granite is the number one construction platform but this doesn't seem to square with the number of 800's and 880's all over the place.

[Rob]

I don't see a lot of them in service in central IL. Mostly KW. The ones I do see are mixers usually.

[Superdog]

I don't know a thing about them,but around here,Granites outnumber every other brand of dump truck 10 to 1. Even most of the county road departments have been switching from Sterling and IH to Mack Granites.

[fjh]

Around here where i Live Granite  Mack in general Out pace most any other truck due to in my mind due to good sales team and decent service! Most other places in Canada , Unfortunately its the total opposite! And deserving so!  As we are on an Island Semi captive audience proves to be helpful ! How ever it doesn't mean you can let your guard down  you need to provide the best you can service! Regardless of the product you are selling!

[bbigrig]

In Ontario when it comes to big fleets and big numbers, its the brand relationship with the customers not the model. Mack still has a large foot hold in the cement industry as an example with the Granite. The "factory" twin steer option has helped it out pace other vendors.

95% of the Macks we repair at the dealer are Granites. Mack has lost a fair bit of market share to KW primarily here in Ontario. It directly relates to the reliability issues with the (Volvo)MP/D series engines, electronics and after treatment issues. Granites are also quite pricy here. Although Granites power train is Volvo, its ironic that the VHD is almost non existent in the vocational market here. Surprisingly most new T800 and 880 customers are former Mack Granite customers and are going as far as specing Paccar power for mixer and most dump and ordering Cummins for tractor or heavy dump application.

[Rob]

Somewhat local Mack dealer purchased the local branch a couple of years ago and I hope they do well. Had four other Mack dealers in somewhat local area over the past few years and nobody could get a foothold. Latest one does alright but won't cut me favorable pricing so although not liking it, I stay where I've been for about 20 years.

[kscarbel2]

However you want to say it.......

Over the last five years, Kenworth has effectively taken a huge market share in the vocational market.

(And Peterbilt has stolen huge market share from the Mack brand in the refuse segment, never to be reclaimed)

Paccar is thrilled with their success and will continue to build on that success.

And obviously, that market share was almost entirely taken from Volvo’s Mack brand.

The Mack brand’s reputation for reliability, established by the former Mack Trucks, has mostly evaporated. 

Dealer repairs are all too often time-consuming nightmares requiring multiple visits to finally peg the fault, and Volvo’s parts pricing is horrendous.

With a jury rigged common rail design on an outdated unit pump block, the Volvo engine is only mediocre, versus offerings from Cummins, Detroit Diesel, the MAN-based A26 And DAF-based MX.

Where’s the attraction?

 

 

[MACKS]

Starting about ten years ago Kenworth was all the rage,in my opinion it was all about driver comfort and nothing else,now Mack makes a comparable cab as far as comfort goes and they seam to making a huge comeback around here n NY,most of the dump truck companies are buying Mack again,take a close look at ten or twelve year old Mack vs Kenworth,that should help u decide,my 23year old Mack cl factory dump still looks and drives amazin,I worked almost every day this year and not one break down that put it out of service try that with a kenworth new or old,not gonna happen..

[kscarbel2]

3 hours ago, MACKS said:

Starting about ten years ago Kenworth was all the rage,in my opinion it was all about driver comfort and nothing else,now Mack makes a comparable cab as far as comfort goes and they seam to making a huge comeback around here n NY,most of the dump truck companies are buying Mack again,take a close look at ten or twelve year old Mack vs Kenworth,that should help u decide,my 23 year old Mack CL factory dump still looks and drives amazing, I worked almost every day this year and not one break down that put it out of service try that with a kenworth new or old,not gonna happen..

But your 23-year old CL is a "Mack" truck.

The growth of Kenworth in the vocational segment is stronger today than ever.

[Lmackattack]

The Granite may be a better built truck down to the frame but with volvo electrical and engine issues it has pushed owners to look at other brands. Waste Managment went with Peterbilt recently. In the last 2 years I see more Paccar trucks arriving as new units in large fleets once held my mack. The big mixer fleets in Chicago that were mostly Mack are now buying new KWs.

[kscarbel2]

1 hour ago, Lmackattack said:

The Granite may be a better built truck down to the frame but with volvo electrical and engine issues it has pushed owners to look at other brands. Waste Managment went with Peterbilt recently. In the last 2 years I see more Paccar trucks arriving as new units in large fleets once held my mack. The big mixer fleets in Chicago that were mostly Mack are now buying new KWs.

The Granite has been built on a modified Volvo VHD chassis since 2007.

[Lmackattack]

On 3/10/2019 at 11:04 PM, kscarbel2 said:

The Granite has been built on a modified Volvo VHD chassis since 2007.

I still think it has a better frame. at least last I checked on a 2010 model. The frame paint wiring, plumbing etc... was still better than that of a paccar. what ever paccar does when they paint their frame is a joke. it flakes off like it was not even prepped. the 2001 I drive has been painted 2 times that I know of and it still looks like crap. my 1978 mack is covered better than what ever they use today

[Oso2]

On 3/10/2019 at 1:35 PM, bbigrig said:

In Ontario when it comes to big fleets and big numbers, its the brand relationship with the customers not the model. Mack still has a large foot hold in the cement industry as an example with the Granite. The "factory" twin steer option has helped it out pace other vendors.

Yes, there are a lot of Granite dumps where I live. Perhaps they have lost a bit of market share - they were *so* dominant in the 80's that you rarely saw anything but a Mack. Having said that, they still have a healthy market share.

The sky is not falling people.

I think a big reason for the shift is that it seems like Macks and Volvo's have gotten comparatively more expensive recently. I also know that some northern dealers are not very competitive. I could be wrong.

 

[bbigrig]

10 hours ago, Oso2 said:

Yes, there are a lot of Granite dumps where I live. Perhaps they have lost a bit of market share - they were *so* dominant in the 80's that you rarely saw anything but a Mack. Having said that, they still have a healthy market share.

The sky is not falling people.

I think a big reason for the shift is that it seems like Macks and Volvo's have gotten comparatively more expensive recently. I also know that some northern dealers are not very competitive. I could be wrong.

 

It's a bigger deal then you realize. 

Even long time Mack salesman are complaining they are losing long time customers they have had since the 80s.

Price and reliability issues that long time customers never had to deal with are hurting sales. Reliability should be getting better the longer the product runs.

 

[JoeH]

23 hours ago, bbigrig said:

It's a bigger deal then you realize. 

Even long time Mack salesman are complaining they are losing long time customers they have had since the 80s.

Price and reliability issues that long time customers never had to deal with are hurting sales. Reliability should be getting better the longer the product runs.

But the product is NOT running that long, emissions regulations are making sure of that. They have to modify engines every year, they have to design it for Uncle Sam, not for reliability.

[bbigrig]

8 hours ago, JoeH said:

But the product is NOT running that long, emissions regulations are making sure of that. They have to modify engines every year, they have to design it for Uncle Sam, not for 

The basics of the emissions havnt changed much since the roll out of SCR (as one example) in 2010. A few more sensors added and some programming. Mack/Volvo then changed the way it is packaged on the frame and introduced a new version of the engine for 2017. In most cases, the longer a product is on the market the more bugs get worked out. In the years the first version of SCR ran, problems were being poorly addressed. Right up to the newer 2017 updates emission systems still had many of the same roll out problems. My vantage point is on the dealer side. I totally understand customer dissatisfaction these days. Don't blame it on emission changes when companies like Volvo are fighting to keep glider kits and the like from being sold.  It's a nice little racket getting to sell bigger warranties and huge repair bills on poorly thought out emission systems being mounted on today's VolMacks.

[kscarbel2]

On 3/15/2019 at 12:35 AM, Oso2 said:

Yes, there are a lot of Granite dumps where I live. Perhaps they have lost a bit of market share - they were *so* dominant in the 80's that you rarely saw anything but a Mack. Having said that, they still have a healthy market share.

The sky is not falling people.

I think a big reason for the shift is that it seems like Macks and Volvo's have gotten comparatively more expensive recently. I also know that some northern dealers are not very competitive. I could be wrong.

The Volvo and Mack customer quotes, spec'd similarly to the competition, on average are $10,000 higher.

[Dirtymilkman]

9 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

The Volvo and Mack customer quotes, spec'd similarly to the competition, on average are $10,000 higher.

This all depends on the dealership and salesman. They can push for better pricing assistance and sell them a lot cheaper. 

[JoeH]

Never bought a new vehicle, but you gotta get quotes from other manufacturers for their truck, and bring it back to Mack. Then go back to other dealer, then back to Mack. Make them compete for your dollar.

 

[kscarbel2]

12 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

This all depends on the dealership and salesman. They can push for better pricing assistance and sell them a lot cheaper. 

No they can't, Mark.

[Oso2]

Ironically since this thread started my local dealership has 6+ new Granites on the lot for a mixer company

[bbigrig]

On 3/16/2019 at 10:50 PM, Oso2 said:

Ironically since this thread started my local dealership has 6+ new Granites on the lot for a mixer company

I work at a dealer that sells and service to more then half of the mixer companies in Ontario. Mack Canada has built a relationship with most of the big Concrete companies since the late 60s. There is a long history of scratching backs there. Trucks are sold to these customers usually by E.O. ( Executive Office) sales reps with almost zero profits to the delivering dealer.

It's a package deal. If it wasn't for the bend over backwards, almost at cost shop labor rates and parts, pickup and delivery of units to be worked on, extra warranty and policy on just about everything.....blah blah....dont kid yourself. The smaller mixer companies are turning to mostly Paccar now. You will always notice a handful of T880s or Petes in a big mixer fleet just to keep Mack honest.  To bad i can't post pictures on here anymore. Our shop is usually over 50% Granite mixers any given day.