New Autocar DC-64 Conventional Truck

[james j neiweem]

The only thing that would be more exiting than this is bringing the Aussie Mack line up over here to the US and Canada. Not even being able to get a woody would beat that.🙂

[TS7]

We will build you a truck if you order 50-100 of the same type and prepay. After you own it, we will help you with issues and there will be many. Do they have more than one running truck now? Do they have test mules running 24 hours a day? Have they tested the cab and know that the doors will not fall off 5-10 years from now? Will it catch on fire next year? A lot can go wrong here. I saw Ford HN80 test mules starting in late 1994. The dash had issues in 1997 when they went on sale and still in 2009 when Sterling quit.  

[kscarbel2]

2 minutes ago, TS7 said:

We will build you a truck if you order 50-100 of the same type and prepay. After you own it, we will help you with issues and there will be many. Do they have more than one running truck now? Do they have test mules running 24 hours a day? Have they tested the cab and know that the doors will not fall off 5-10 years from now? Will it catch on fire next year? A lot can go wrong here. I saw Ford HN80 test mules starting in late 1994. The dash had issues in 1997 when they went on sale and still in 2009 when Sterling quit.  

So many negative waves. As Oddball once said, "Have a little faith baby! have a little faith!"

As for the HN80. the dashboard did crack......and new owner Daimler never seemed to have addressed the problem. However, I'm confident that Ford would have, had they kept going with it.

[Hayseed]

5 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

So many negative waves. As Oddball once said, "Have a little faith baby! have a little faith!"

As for the HN80. the dashboard did crack......and new owner Daimler never seemed to have addressed the problem. However, I'm confident that Ford would have, had they kept going with it.

This Guy does quite well solving this issue..

http://sterlingdashreplacement.com.au/

 

[kscarbel2]

16 minutes ago, Hayseed said:

This Guy does quite well solving this issue..

http://sterlingdashreplacement.com.au/

Well done! Australia has some of the world's best problem solvers, a place overflowing with ingenuity.

Oh, and Oz has Paul too.............https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/50535-extreme-make-over-time-for-mrs-mack/?page=2

 

[Red Horse]

6 hours ago, Hayseed said:

This Guy does quite well solving this issue..

http://sterlingdashreplacement.com.au/

Wow- he should make them for the US.  How many Sterlings still running around here.  If the economics can work with the Aussie Sterling population, this should be a home run in the US

[Bullheaded]

11 hours ago, TS7 said:

We will build you a truck if you order 50-100 of the same type and prepay. After you own it, we will help you with issues and there will be many. Do they have more than one running truck now? Do they have test mules running 24 hours a day? Have they tested the cab and know that the doors will not fall off 5-10 years from now? Will it catch on fire next year? A lot can go wrong here. I saw Ford HN80 test mules starting in late 1994. The dash had issues in 1997 when they went on sale and still in 2009 when Sterling quit.  

Well, likely doesn't matter. I have what is supposed to be a "premium" truck from a company that has test tracks and makes "extreme duty" off road trucks.

The videos on their web site show all the details that make them better as the guy says "does it cost more? Well yes it does."

And guess what? It's the worst truck I have ever been in. The build quality flaws when it was delivered are far too many to list here.

 

 

[DailyDiesel]

On 5/11/2019 at 3:54 PM, kscarbel2 said:

Speaking of the Autocar launch, I can't remember when we had such an exciting week. I haven't felt this much energy since the HN80 was launched.

Non-truck people, realistically speaking, at Freightliner, Paccar and the Mack brand for example, try to hype the launch of the latest Cascadia, T680 and Anthem.......and completely fail, because they have never known the "pulse" of the heavy truck industry. There's something to be said for deep-rooted truck experience (politically correct "diversity" doesn't create and sell great trucks).

 

It's amazing what can happen when you listen to your customers!

[RoadwayR]

On 5/11/2019 at 12:54 PM, kscarbel2 said:

Speaking of the Autocar launch, I can't remember when we had such an exciting week. I haven't felt this much energy since the HN80 was launched.

 

Well, I certainly hope the Autocar hyperbole lasts longer than the 18-odd months the HN80 party lasted.  But, everything I have seen of the Autocar conventional so far leeds me to believe this is a very serious effort.

Not to change the subject, but to this day Ford's abrupt exit of the heavy truck market after designing a whole new series of vehicles for it has to be the most bizarre thing I have ever seen a major manufacturer ever do.  Did someone not get the memo?  Wonder if there wasn't more to the story.   

Edited May 13, 2019 by RoadwayR

[Hayseed]

16 hours ago, Red Horse said:

Wow- he should make them for the US.  How many Sterlings still running around here.  If the economics can work with the Aussie Sterling population, this should be a home run in the US

Think someone has beaten Him to It......

http://dashdesigncorp.com/

[Red Horse]

7 hours ago, RoadwayR said:

Well, I certainly hope the Autocar hyperbole lasts longer than the 18-odd months the HN80 party lasted.  But, everything I have seen of the Autocar conventional so far leeds me to believe this is a very serious effort.

Not to change the subject, but to this day Ford's abrupt exit of the heavy truck market after designing a whole new series of vehicles for it has to be the most bizarre thing I have ever seen a major manufacturer ever do.  Did someone not get the memo?  Wonder if there wasn't more to the story.   

I think classic case of corporate infighting.  You are right-bizarre is the word.  Think of it.  How many millions did they spend on the design and as someone previously noted, he saw mules running around as early as 94.  Think of the study that went into this BEFORE the huge expenditure was approved.  The lesser profitability of heavy trucks was I'm sure a known factor when that decision was made-and understood-not all facets of the business produce the same rate of return. 

By 98 Jac Nassar was in control and doing all sorts of stupid stuff-like buying junkyards so.."we can study parts failures"- etc etc.  And for sure there was a faction by then that looked at only one thing-the profitability of every vehicle.  Not a bad thing-but it is a lot more complicated than that I'm sure. And recognized and accepted when HN-80 was authorized.

Had Jac not have been on the throne at that point, my bet is Ford would still be cranking out big trucks in Louisville.

[Red Horse]

3 hours ago, Hayseed said:

Think someone has beaten Him to It......

http://dashdesigncorp.com/

Thx Hayseed-no clue these guys existed.

[Bullheaded]

On the Ford thing......I watch some cars shows on the weekends on tv when I'm having breakfast. A couple years ago I was watching Autoline Detroit and they had some execs from Ford on the discussion panel.

They were saying how Ford is going to get back into class 8 trucks in north America because they feel they once again want to offer a full commercial portfolio. They wanted to be able to offer everything from vans and F150's all the way up.

The most interesting thing he said was "we still own all our old tooling and dies."

I wonder what ever happened to that plan? And what tooling do they still own? The old Louisville stuff or Sterling era stuff?

[kscarbel2]

42 minutes ago, Bullheaded said:

On the Ford thing......I watch some cars shows on the weekends on tv when I'm having breakfast. A couple years ago I was watching Autoline Detroit and they had some execs from Ford on the discussion panel.

They were saying how Ford is going to get back into class 8 trucks in north America because they feel they once again want to offer a full commercial portfolio. They wanted to be able to offer everything from vans and F150's all the way up.

The most interesting thing he said was "we still own all our old tooling and dies."

I wonder what ever happened to that plan? And what tooling do they still own? The old Louisville stuff or Sterling era stuff?

That makes no sense. Bob? Once assumes they sold the HN80 tooling to Daimler. If they leased it, such a deal would be unheard of. They might still own the Louisville tooling, but.............

[Maxidyne]

From what I've heard Daimler even has the Ford heavy truck parts inventory... Need a Ford produced part for your old Louisville, you go to a Freightliner dealer.

[RoadwayR]

5 hours ago, Red Horse said:

Had Jac not have been on the throne at that point, my bet is Ford would still be cranking out big trucks in Louisville.

No way, the numbers were not there for Ford in heavy trucks since the mid-80's.  What really killed Ford's heavy truck business was the boundless increase in light truck popularity that really took off in the 1980's.  The Louisville plant is FAR more profitable building high volume high margin light trucks than it was building low volume labor intensive low margin (because most all of Ford's large truck sales were low bid fleet) heavy trucks.  The mystery was why did Ford bother with the HN80 program in the first place?  They dropped the C series in 1990, the CL in 1991, should have let the old L's go until they had to retool the plant for the 1999 Super Duty pickups.  Of course they wouldn't have had anything to sell Freightliner, but they lost a lot of money on that deal anyway. 

I have never heard that Ford still had their heavy truck tooling nor any rumor that they had any intention of re-entering the heavy truck market in the U.S..  Freightliner did buy all the old L series tooling along with that for the HN80, it was all auctioned off in St. Thomas late 2009.  Possibly Ford bought the tooling?  That would be interesting!   

     

[Hayseed]

3 hours ago, Maxidyne said:

From what I've heard Daimler even has the Ford heavy truck parts inventory... Need a Ford produced part for your old Louisville, you go to a Freightliner dealer.

That's how it works here,

I still have a a couple of L series & It's surprising what they still have in Stock. Though lately I do get told a lot "that part is NLA"

[TS7]

Roadway is right about L and HN80 tooling I think Ford sold them everything. Freightliner Dealers have  Ford heavy truck parts, what is left is few, the right dealer will try to order them. Daimler wanted to kill Ford heavy trucks off and did not make any more parts. I hear same thing about Sterling parts now. That did not make any money on "old L series trucks" is a BS story the clowns running Ford in 1997 used  to sell off Ford Heavy Truck. All the fools running Ford in 1997 are too blame for that dumb sale and the HN80 issues that year. Ford could have built 1999 Super Duty some where else, they had under used plants. If the L series was such poor truck why are there so many still on the road today. The HN80 had issues from the start, I knew two truckers that had some of the first 9500 MI specials (tractors, 8 axle dump trains) they had a lot of issues. One told me back then he could not understand how Ford could build a great truck (LTL 9000) and then build the 1997 Louisville 9500, junk. I remember thinking that new Ford 9500 was a great looking truck, till I heard that. This is what I am saying about Autocar today, they can talk all they want , but make it right before they sell it. I do not drink cool aid sold by any truck maker, buyer beware of any truck sold today.  

[Red Horse]

5 hours ago, RoadwayR said:

No way, the numbers were not there for Ford in heavy trucks since the mid-80's.  What really killed Ford's heavy truck business was the boundless increase in light truck popularity that really took off in the 1980's.  The Louisville plant is FAR more profitable building high volume high margin light trucks than it was building low volume labor intensive low margin (because most all of Ford's large truck sales were low bid fleet) heavy trucks.  The mystery was why did Ford bother with the HN80 program in the first place?  They dropped the C series in 1990, the CL in 1991, should have let the old L's go until they had to retool the plant for the 1999 Super Duty pickups.  Of course they wouldn't have had anything to sell Freightliner, but they lost a lot of money on that deal anyway. 

I have never heard that Ford still had their heavy truck tooling nor any rumor that they had any intention of re-entering the heavy truck market in the U.S..  Freightliner did buy all the old L series tooling along with that for the HN80, it was all auctioned off in St. Thomas late 2009.  Possibly Ford bought the tooling?  That would be interesting!   

     

It was my understanding that when Ford did the Daimler deal, along with the 10 year no compete, all the tooling went to Daimler.

Now Roadway, check the box....From your earlier post.....Not to change the subject, but to this day Ford's abrupt exit of the heavy truck market after designing a whole new series of vehicles for it has to be the most bizarre thing I have ever seen a major manufacturer ever do.  Did someone not get the memo?  Wonder if there wasn't more to the story.   

Now you are posting that it was the right thing or words to that effect.  So which is it?  Again I allude to the fact that this was NOT a blind decision to spend a fortune on HN-80.  Are you saying Ford had no financial analysts that did not beat the shit out of this subject before senior management signed off?  Do you really think that they were clueless as to how much they could make on say 200,000 HD PICK UPS  a year vs 50,000 class 7 and 8 trucks?  I don't think so.  But I believe when HN-80 was committed the guys at the top were comfortable with the return on heavy trucks and felt it was an integral part of Ford.  And I'm sure when that decision was made, there were plenty of "car guys" who had no use for big trucks.  All of a sudden Jac the Knife is on the scene and guess who had his ear?  Those car guys I would bet.  And from all the dumb ass moves he made, my guess is he could very easily paint a picture as to why this was such a good move. 

I think it goes back to the theory of profitability along product lines.  Are there some product lines  in ANY company that do better than others?  For sure.  Do some companies bail out on less profitable products to concentrate on their "core business"?  For sure.  But not all managements subscribe to that theory. 

If that were the case perhaps John Deere would only need yellow or green paint!😎

At least that is how I see it-an opinion of course.

Final opinion-if Ford made a mistake, they should have truly concentrated on the vocational market-and I include the fleet linehaul market to the ABF's ConWays,  etc of the era in that vocational mix.  The true "owner operator "large car" market?   They should have let that be because Paccar could build the biggest pile of shit and those guys would stand around and say.."isn't it beautiful".   And I'm not saying they are crap  -I'm just saying you will never get the majority of those guys out of a Pete or KW.

 

[Maxidyne]

The "Big Threes" history is full of abandoned markets and products because somebody though that big cars or little cars or big trucks or SUVs were dead and pulled out of that market, only to have to rush back in a few years later. Ford had a front wheel drive compact, the Taunus, in the 60s and killed it, and two decades later probably spent a billion in 21st century dollars to bring the Escort to world markets. Ford killed the original Bronco and now they're spending hundreds of millions to reinvent it. Ford killed the GT40 twice, had to reinvent it, and now they're letting it die again. Ford killed their heavy trucks 20 years ago, and now the company they sold their trucks to has full order books for the rest of the year...

When you're a company that builds over a million motor vehicles a year you have to be active in every segment of the market, because the market can change it's mind a lot quicker than the years it takes to design and tool up a new product. 

[kscarbel2]

"Now that we revealed the new #Autocar #DC-64R purpose-built conventional refuse truck, the wraps are off the truck we had hidden as a teaser in our WasteExpo booth. It's the 1990 Autocar ACL64B rolloff graciously loaned by All American Waste in New Mexico. Thanks to Carmine Capone and his family for sharing our celebrations of the new #AutocarDC. #AlwaysUp"

.

[kscarbel2]

"The new Autocar DC cab:

1) It's 100% new, 100% Autocar.

2) It's made in America from galvanized steel and a touch of aluminum for strength+weight optimization, tested for severe-duty beatings.

3) Inspired by the classic Autocar Driver Cab with wraparound glass and tons of operator space.

4) The dash has a steel structure and aluminum panels with exposed fasteners for serviceability.

5) Inside, more authentic custom metals, less plastics.

6) 100% #BadtotheBone #AutocarDC #AlwaysUp"

.

[kscarbel2]

[Red Horse]

2 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

"The new Autocar DC cab:

1) It's 100% new, 100% Autocar.

2) It's made in America from galvanized steel and a touch of aluminum for strength+weight optimization, tested for severe-duty beatings.

3) Inspired by the classic Autocar Driver Cab with wraparound glass and tons of operator space.

4) The dash has a steel structure and aluminum panels with exposed fasteners for serviceability.

5) Inside, more authentic custom metals, less plastics.

6) 100% #BadtotheBone #AutocarDC #AlwaysUp"

.

Love it-except for that rounded off snout.  Brink back the DK look.  But one thing that is great from a safety perspective-as many of us have posted, these light groupings where the turn signal is in the same housing as the headlights leave a lot to be desired.  the visibility of that turn signal is lost.  Bring back the "lollypop"!  then the idiot that is trying to get by you on the right as you make a wide swing for a right hand turn has one more blinking light in his face.  Granted- that lollypop will cost you .00045 mpg because of wind resistance.😎

[Bullheaded]

There is a signal marker on the underside of the mirror arm though.