New Autocar DC-64 Conventional Truck

[Red Horse]

I see more International HX in that cab. How about it KSC- are the International cabs done by an outside builder?

 as for the grill IMO I think too much 40's  A-car. Square that up a little and its looking like a true A-car!  And let's face it-this thing is going to be a true vocational truck I would imagine so aero is the least of the attributes they would have to be pushing.

Nuts and Bolts A-car toughness is what will sell.  As well as simplicity.

[kscarbel2]

9 hours ago, Red Horse said:

I see more International HX in that cab. How about it KSC- are the International cabs done by an outside builder?

 as for the grill IMO I think too much 40's  A-car. Square that up a little and its looking like a true A-car!  And let's face it-this thing is going to be a true vocational truck I would imagine so aero is the least of the attributes they would have to be pushing.

Nuts and Bolts A-car toughness is what will sell.  As well as simplicity.

Bob, CVG was producing Navistar cabs up to 2009. Then Navistar wisely brought production in-house. CVG (Commercial Vehicle Group), the firm that produces Mack brand cabs, is a mess.

http://ir.cvgrp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/commercial-vehicle-group-announces-planned-closure-norwalk-oh

https://www.morningjournal.com/news/losing-jobs-in-norwalk/article_79b65e1e-acbf-5d17-aed3-00dfe8039021.html

I can't see enough from that picture to compare with the Navistar cab. Obviously the doors are different, with horizontal door handles alike a T880. The sunvisor hides the roof line. Cabs are not that expensive to design anymore. They might have thrown out their criteria to several design firms, and Bendix* is producing it. We'll soon know.

*  https://www.truckinginfo.com/101092/bendix-expands-module-business-with-autocar-cab-deal

[kscarbel2]

People are disgusted with a lack of options (X12) and availability (build slots up to 12 months out).

"If" Autocar can deliver this vocational chassis in a timely manner, they can really clean up. It all will depend on how skillfully they can ramp up production.

Yet another truck that will, alike the T880, take more Mack brand market share in the vocational segment.

[41180]

It looks ok but i was hoping for a more square look .

[Red Horse]

1 hour ago, 41180 said:

It looks ok but i was hoping for a more square look .

Likewise-if its vocational no need for aero-and besides, all that plastic fairing shit gets ripped off when you back into the job site that is half cleared of brush -trees😎

[Red Horse]

1 hour ago, kscarbel2 said:

Bob, CVG was producing Navistar cabs up to 2009. Then Navistar wisely brought production in-house. CVG (Commercial Vehicle Group), the firm that produces Mack brand cabs, is a mess.

http://ir.cvgrp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/commercial-vehicle-group-announces-planned-closure-norwalk-oh

https://www.morningjournal.com/news/losing-jobs-in-norwalk/article_79b65e1e-acbf-5d17-aed3-00dfe8039021.html

I can't see enough from that picture to compare with the Navistar cab. Obviously the doors are different, with horizontal door handles alike a T880. The sunvisor hides the roof line. Cabs are not that expensive to design anymore. They might have thrown out their criteria to several design firms, and Bendix* is producing it. We'll soon know.

*  https://www.truckinginfo.com/101092/bendix-expands-module-business-with-autocar-cab-deal

Thx Kevin-did not know Bendix was in the cab business- this is a 2008 article and I thought the   Autocar Expediter used the old White LCF cab.  They still using that cab?

[kscarbel2]

38 minutes ago, Red Horse said:

Thx Kevin-did not know Bendix was in the cab business- this is a 2008 article and I thought the   Autocar Expediter used the old White LCF cab.  They still using that cab?

Yes, Bendix is using the old White cab tooling (which has been updated of course).

Bendix never made cabs before, but was willing.

https://www.bendix.com/media/documents/press_releases/2008/Autocar_Module_Rounds_Out_Bendix_Business_100208.pdf

[Maxidyne]

From reading the article, sounds like Bendix doesn't make the bare cabs, but they assemble and dress them. That article's 11 years old, so that arrangement may have changed.

[james j neiweem]

Yes agree square up the grill. Autocar just purchased a one million square foot manufacturing and assembly building in Birmingham Alabama. As far as heavy haul goes I am not sure they have enough bonnet for an x15. We shall see.

Edited May 6, 2019 by james j neiweem

[DailyDiesel]

It will be interesting to see how this sells. Most Autocar "dealers" sell primarily other makes of trucks that would be direct competitors to this model.

[kscarbel2]

11 hours ago, Maxidyne said:

From reading the article, sounds like Bendix doesn't make the bare cabs, but they assemble and dress them. That article's 11 years old, so that arrangement may have changed.

I believe you are right. It seems that Xpeditor cab production moved to CVG some time between 2011 and the present.

[Hayseed]

11 hours ago, james j neiweem said:

As far as heavy haul goes I am not sure they have enough bonnet for an x15.

That was My first thought..

[kscarbel2]

17 hours ago, james j neiweem said:

Yes agree square up the grill. Autocar just purchased a one million square foot manufacturing and assembly building in Birmingham Alabama. As far as heavy haul goes I am not sure they have enough bonnet for an x15. We shall see.

 

6 hours ago, Hayseed said:

That was My first thought..

C'mon guys, in the North American market, for over 90 percent of the operators, the 350-500hp X12 is all they need.

[james j neiweem]

KS: Paccar gets there foot in the door with long time Mack users by offering big power in their lowboys and trailer dumps. The straight dumps follow. Granted as you say the KW/Pete dumps with the X12 is a great product. Also Malvo doesn' help them selves with there injector cup issues.

[TheEngineer]

54 minutes ago, james j neiweem said:

KS: Paccar gets there foot in the door with long time Mack users by offering big power in their lowboys and trailer dumps. The straight dumps follow. Granted as you say the KW/Pete dumps with the X12 is a great product. Also Malvo doesn' help them selves with there injector cup issues.

No disrespect meant to Mr Scarbel, but that’s exactly what I thought. Where the equipment movers go, so goes the dump truck fleet. In the old days, most companies had R or DM dumps with Superliner lowboy rigs. Now that Mack hasn’t offered a decent heavy haul rig (read: enough power and displacement) for a few years, Paccar and WS are beginning to weasel their way in, starting with heavies first. Even Autocar fleets had a big-power DC, DK, or AT64F around for moving equipment while the Construcktor handled dump and mixer duties. 

[kscarbel2]

1 hour ago, james j neiweem said:

KS: Paccar gets there foot in the door with long time Mack users by offering big power in their lowboys and trailer dumps. The straight dumps follow. Granted as you say the KW/Pete dumps with the X12 is a great product. Also Malvo doesn' help them selves with there injector cup issues.

Paccar's huge mistake in the making is NOT offering the X12.

Paccar was offering the ISX12. But that model has now been replaced with the X12, and Paccar refused to sign a purchase agreement with Cummins for the X12.

So now, Paccar customers have no more "choice". It's the DAF-designed Paccar MX engine.....or nothing. Americans (and Australians) like "choice".

I am seeing some T880 dumps with X15s, but c'mon, that's ridiculous overkill. The X12 would offer abundant power (350-500hp) with far better fuel economy.

[kscarbel2]

8 minutes ago, TheEngineer said:

No disrespect meant to Mr Scarbel, but that’s exactly what I thought. Where the equipment movers go, so goes the dump truck fleet. In the old days, most companies had R or DM dumps with Superliner lowboy rigs. Now that Mack hasn’t offered a decent heavy haul rig (read: enough power and displacement) for a few years, Paccar and WS are beginning to weasel their way in, starting with heavies first. Even Autocar fleets had a big-power DC, DK, or AT64F around for moving equipment while the Construcktor handled dump and mixer duties. 

The truck we see here is obviously a short-nose set up for the X12.

But if they've thought this through, there likely is a longer nose Autocar vocational engineered for the X15, for both dump and heavy-haul tractor applications. Only a fool would ignore that segment.

[41180]

12-13 liter is all most need but most want 15-16 liter even if only hauling 70-80k gross. I know alot of dump truck guys running 70k lbs with 550 cats and cummins , yes overkill but they want that power 

[HeavyGunner]

1 hour ago, kscarbel2 said:

 

I am seeing some T880 dumps with X15s, but c'mon, that's ridiculous overkill. The X12 would offer abundant power (350-500hp) with far better fuel economy.

What’s the real world economy of the x12? I always here these big mpg number thrown around but have never seen them. That’s not to say they don’t exist it’s just personal experience and what other drivers have told me. Dirty milk man (who I believe) has said on here in another thread that he averages 6.91 in his mp10 powered titan which averaged I think 36mph. That’s a hard number to beat when you consider the power and weight he’s hauling

Edited May 7, 2019 by HeavyGunner

[41180]

1 hour ago, james j neiweem said:

KS: Paccar gets there foot in the door with long time Mack users by offering big power in their lowboys and trailer dumps. The straight dumps follow. Granted as you say the KW/Pete dumps with the X12 is a great product. Also Malvo doesn' help them selves with there injector cup issues.

In the late 90s when cat started offering  475-550 hp and pete,kenworth ,international ,freightliner,ford, western star started having those big power trucks right on the lot competing against macks 350-460 hp trucks it was over for mack , plus mack onlyofferd sloped nosed models no classic look truck , the reliability slipped i think mainly because they were trying to compete with 15 liters with a 12 liter . I also dont know why mack dealers havent revolted against volvo and told thwm what they need to compete especially i  the northeast where mack was dominant . I dont get it.

[james j neiweem]

41180: You nailed it on your late 90's comment. Great history lesson on one of the main reasons Mack lost the heavy haul market. Mack did have the 565 horse Cummins in the CL but the Cl with the setback axle was not as appealing (classic look conventional) as the other vendor offerings , plus no Cat options during this period. Good wishes to the new Acar conventional. Hope they can learn from Volvo's mistakes.

 

[kscarbel2]

2 hours ago, HeavyGunner said:

What’s the real world economy of the x12? I always here these big mpg number thrown around but have never seen them. That’s not to say they don’t exist it’s just personal experience and what other drivers have told me. Dirty milk man (who I believe) has said on here in another thread that he averages 6.91 in his mp10 powered titan which averaged I think 36mph. That’s a hard number to beat when you consider the power and weight he’s hauling

Well first of all, truth be told, Dirtymilkman (Mark) who spends all his time jet setting around the world has never set foot in his MP10 Titan. Heir to the Marriott fortune, he has never worked a day in his life.

As for MPG, if you had a driver and his exact clone operating two identical trucks under the same operating conditions under 80,000lb, the X12 would prove more economical than the X15.

[Dirtymilkman]

53 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

Well first of all, truth be told, Dirtymilkman (Mark) who spends all his time jet setting around the world has never set foot in his MP10 Titan. Heir to the Marriott fortune, he has never worked a day in his life.

As for MPG, if you had a driver and his exact clone operating two identical trucks under the same operating conditions under 80,000lb, the X12 would prove more economical than the X15.

Actually our fortune came from inventing the ballpoint pen. 

My mileage is exceptional, except in the winter. My clone needs to work on his winter skills. 

[mrsmackpaul]

6 minutes ago, Dirtymilkman said:

Actually our fortune came from inventing the ballpoint pen. 

My mileage is exceptional, except in the winter. My clone needs to work on his winter skills. 

My clone needs to turn up and work

Im getting older and tireder than ever, come on clone Paul it's time for you to lift your game lol

 

Paul 

[autocardc]

On 5/4/2019 at 8:59 PM, kscarbel2 said:

It's anyone's guess.

Venture capital firm GVW Capital's niche with it's Autocar, LLC project has been principally refuse, so hence we can expect a vocational conventional (bonneted) truck which can inherently be sold to tipper and ready-mix fleets as well.

Obviously times have changed.......it will have to be substantially lighter than the Autocars of old in order to compete in the modern world.

Interestingly, it will likely feature the superb X12. My point? Paccar foolishly didn't sign a purchase agreement with Cummins for the X12. So all those Paccar fleets which bought ISX12s are now being forced to buy the Paccar MX13, or switch brands. Absolutely stupid on Paccar's part.....give the customer an engine choice.

Aside from Autocar, only Daimler's gaudy/tacky Western Star 4700 and (cheap) 114SD are available with the outstanding X12. Navistar and Mack don't offer it.

So I say the X12, a high-performing low weight package, will give the new Autocar conventional a nice sales advantage right out of the gate.

You were right, 500 hp x12 in this model. Based on what Autocar wrote below they will be offering more than one model in this DC series..

"It's here: Autocar announced the rebirth of the Autocar DC conventional truck. First up is the DC-64R, purpose built for refuse, with a 500 hp X12 engine. "