B steering column

[Hobert62]

I’ve heard people mention on here about sticking a r model column in a b when switching to a r power steering box.  Has anyone done it that has a picture of how you mounted it to the dash. I’m putting pieces together and looking for ideas.    

[davehummell]

I was going to do that kevin all did that in his camper. I started but I took the thing apart and made a new column used a lower shaft with the joints from a freightliner. I mounted my box out front of the axle like a modern truck. I'll get my cousin to take some pictures I haven't a clue how to do all that on the computer.

[Hobert62]

I’m have a reman box from a freightliner that’s going infront of the axle.   The column I have to use is from a Mack mr garbage truck.  It looked almost identical to the R but has a smaller 18” wheel.  If it’s easier and you still have my phone # you could text them to me.  Thanks

[harrybarbon]

here is a couple of pictures of R model steering column in B model, copy the pictures and then open them through microsoft office so you can zoom in close to get a good clear vision, you won't get a clear picture if you just zoom in. 

[Hobert62]

What’s the clutch pedal setup?  Is that standard for a right hand drive truck?

[harrybarbon]

This is also the R model clutch pedal and yes standard right side drive, the reverse should apply for LHD. We fitted the complete R model steering with adjusting slide in/out and clutch system, all mounted to reinforced lower B cab dash board - all works perfectly. These are our work in progress with R model steering system, a bit dark but should give you an idea.

Also here is Mert Huberts B75 with the the standard B75 steering system that you may want to consider, you should be able to find a B 75 steering system - maybe try contact Kevin All, he has a good stock supply.

 

And here are 3 pics of the Outlaw B75 steering column and an original B75

B 75 green 8.bmp B 75 green 6.bmp B 75 green 8.bmp

[Brocky]

Harry

Were those first pictures taken in Ian Lee's shop?? This is what it looked like in August of 2015 when I saw it..

[j hancock]

A couple pics of the original jointed column in my B75 with L cab. 

The column is not bolted to the dash. 

There is a tray looking bracket behind the dash with a separate bracket connecting between the "tray" and the top of the column using a rubber insulator.  An additional vertical bracket bolts between the steering column joint and the bottom of the tray.

[fuzzy buzzard]

The picture of red and black B 75, OUTLAW, in last post looks like Bobby Osborne's truck. He lived in Marietta, Oh area. Is this his old truck? Where is it at now? Think he sold it at Winchester, VA show a number of years ago. That was one fine ride!!

[fuzzy buzzard]

Since the topic is power steering - I have 2 cents to add. My old wrecker steered so hard that I looked like an ape after driving a long run. So - removed old steering column, added a Sheppard 49 box from a B-53 mounted inside the frame and used a column from a Freightshaker CO (after some modifications). One finger power steering sitting still BUT no road feel what so ever! This thing is like chasing a snake down the road.   

Anybody out there with a B-53 that has these problems. I have talked with several people with early R's with Sheppard PS say they have the same symptoms - no road feel, way too easy to over correct because you can't feel where the tires are.  

Anybody got any ideas?? Have been to alignment twice, new king pins and bushings, new tie rod ends, wheel bearing tight, no slop in Sheppard box, tires start to move as soon as steering wheel is moved either direction. The oil pump that feeds this box is a compressor driven vane pump from a 676 engine. Can it be possible that it is putting out too much volume causing the steering to be too sensitive? Being able to twist steering wheel with one finger sitting still indicates there is plenty of oil pressure available if needed.

So, everybody jump on this and lets hear your thoughts before ole Fuzzy Buzzard needs elbow replacements!

Over & out from Ignorant Ridge (aka Piety Hill)  

[JoeH]

Sounds like an old Jeep Wrangler. Short wheelbase with power steering you can roll one over real easy if you aren't careful. Modern Jeeps have a progressive power steering that keeps them from being overly sensitive at higher speeds. Not sure how they work.

[Hobert62]

Thanks!   Now I have some more ideas running through my head.   How much extra strengthening was required in the dash?

[Hobert62]

Fuzzy.   Wonder if something is different at the axle end.  Maybe a non power steering axle has longer mounting points where the drag link hooks to it, just like a longer handled ratchet has more leverage. When the ps was added to this it made for almost no feel at the wheel.    Idk just a thought.     

[JoeH]

Add a stabilizing shock from tie rod to axle like solid front axle pickup trucks use sometimes?

[41chevy]

3 hours ago, Hobert62 said:

Fuzzy.   Wonder if something is different at the axle end.  Maybe a non power steering axle has longer mounting points where the drag link hooks to it, just like a longer handled ratchet has more leverage. When the ps was added to this it made for almost no feel at the wheel.    Idk just a thought.     

The length of the arms on the knuckles change how quick or slow the steering is.To high pump pressure with make your steering feel like it "floats" for want of a better word  I don't recall who supplied it but there was a pressure regulating valve made to lower the line pressure. for Mopars  power steering in the 50's 60's to give road feel.  The other choice is to run a belt driven P.S. pump ,you can go up on the pulley diameter to lower pressure at the pump.

[davehummell]

That pressure regulator is a good idea but with the small amount of fluid in the steering system will the restriction bring the oil temp up to high? If it has a return that sends back the excess oil to the tank and not trying to push all the flow through is that how it was done on the mopars? Yea I have lost some road feel in my truck it steers like a 60 caddy.

[41chevy]

59 minutes ago, davehummell said:

That pressure regulator is a good idea but with the small amount of fluid in the steering system will the restriction bring the oil temp up to high? If it has a return that sends back the excess oil to the tank and not trying to push all the flow through is that how it was done on the mopars? Yea I have lost some road feel in my truck it steers like a 60 caddy.

Mopar had an orifice tube in the pressure line off the pump and like Ford, Merc and Lincolns in the late 60's to late 90's Crown Vics all had  power steering oil cooler mounted off the radiator support. Easy to plumb an oil  cooler in the return line.  Even an auxiliary trans cooler would be fine. 

The Mopar are scarce as hens teeth but here is your solution for about $100.00 plus a hour of your time. You can tune in the road feel you want. The Heidts  one works like a pressure regulator on a shop air compressor.

 

https://www.heidts.com/part/adjustable-power-steering-valve-ps-101/

Edited July 4, 2019 by 41chevy

[Truck Shop]

                                    Note in the photo below this Vickers pump and Ross steering has a return flow from the Vickers pump back to reservoir. One pressure line from pump to gear, one return from gear to reservoir

                                    and one suction line. It was a fairly common set up on PacCar's. At higher rpm the pump bypasses some at road speed at low rpm it steers easy backing up.

 

                                    

[fuzzy buzzard]

Forgot to mention - I did add 2 heavy duty steering stabilizer cylinders and it did help some. Maybe I should have used "coil over shocks" instead. That was meant to be a joke but the more I think about it, the better the idea sounds! If I have too much volume with the capability of too much pressure, just as well make the system work harder to move tires.

I looked at the Heidts site. Am I thinking correctly - this is an adjustible proportioning valve? Sounds like interesting idea but the ports are too small for this application. Should be able to find this type of valve with 1/2" ports.

Thanks for the ideas and please keep thinking on this. The old truck cruses good 65-70 but the stress levels of steering take a lot of fun from the ride.  

[JoeH]

Coilovers are going to want to return to center. We use Prince valves to control the speed of some hydraulics on our volumetric concrete trucks. They get used on snow plow spreaders commonly to control spinner speeds. 

Honestly it sounds to me like you just need to adjust the pressure relief valve, hopefully your system already has one. Power steering systems should be set around 700 psi. 

[JoeH]

PS the Prince valves make a lot of heat! 

https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200414715_200414715?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Hydraulics > Hydraulic Valves > Adjustable Flow Valves&utm_campaign=Prince&utm_content=2040&&gclid=CjwKCAjw6vvoBRBtEiwAZq-T1UYfKxiWZ2hbKNNrfHABqpZkn1eFlH6aUi9dx9HnIVO8fqe43Vz-BhoCVgEQAvD_BwE

[Maddog13407]

had the Sheppard box out of a B61sx I put in my single axle when I first restored it, exactly steer with a finger but felt like an old worn out Ford twin I beam front axle going down the road, chased it everywhere. ended up takin it out.

[Hobert62]

The box, and pump came off of the same truck fl70 or 80 with same engine I’m preparing to swap in.  My front axle is already same era freightliner.   So hopefully no handling issues.   

[fuzzy buzzard]

Maddog, you make me feel better!!! Did toe-in seem to make any difference? Remember what Sheppard box you used - 39 maybe? What pump?

Someone mentioned 700 psi max - just going down the road in what appears hopefully to be a straight line - pressure is not an issue. I would think volume would be more of a problem. Too much volume should cause too fast of a correction - I think??

Keep thinking on this and holler back. I'm worried sick about this, sitting in front of air conditioner tonight - remember, I was one of the old folks at the Outville Power Show this weekend suffering thru the heat.  

 

[41chevy]

How about a variable pump like Pete an KW run?  The assist has a bypass circuit so the pressure and volume gets less as RPM - speed increases.

You can only pass a specific amount of fluid through the lines, ports and spool. To increase volume you need to increase pressure to force extra fluid through, which than will cause cavitation and aerate the fluid and it become somewhat air bound and cause your twitchy feeling. The cavitation will be in the range of 30 mph and will get worse at higher speeds.

Edited July 8, 2019 by 41chevy