E7 E-tech/ ASET Automatic Transmission

[ivanuke]

Are there any AMT or fully automatic transmissions that work with the E7 Etech and Aset motors? Im looking at the eaton ultrashift, but dont know if it will work with these motors. Or what is involved to make this conversion if possible.

I have a small fleet of 12yard dump trucks, All Mack CH613s 2001-2007 Range currently with Eaton Fuller/Maxitorque transmission. I am currently building my fleet and hope to have 2 more trucks by the end of the year. We haul dirt mainly to construction sites in the Houston, TX area and good drivers are hard to find, so I am considering getting one AMT or AT to test in our fleet as there are a lot more drivers that can drive automatics vs 10/13spds properly.

I understand the complexity of the AMT and ATs, lots of mixed reviews on them, but would like to try one for myself if there are any out there. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by ivanuke

[Maxidyne]

If you're looking at a used truck just buy one with an automatic, it'll cost more and be a bunch of headaches to convert one from a manual. The Allison is the best, especially if you're doing a lot of work on site or in the city.

[ivanuke]

16 hours ago, Maxidyne said:

If you're looking at a used truck just buy one with an automatic, it'll cost more and be a bunch of headaches to convert one from a manual. The Allison is the best, especially if you're doing a lot of work on site or in the city.

Thanks for the response, the reason i was considering a conversion is because I want to fit the best automatic (trouble free) transmission to my dump truck with cammel back suspension. I could buy used but i have not been able to find this combination! Hell i cant even find any used macks with allisons in them for that year range. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by ivanuke

[theakerstwo]

Look for a old cement mixer.I have been thinking about building another bobtale dump from one if i can find one.

[Maxidyne]

Are you thinking of converting a tractor to a straight dump truck?

[theakerstwo]

No i been looking for a cement mixer for the heavy front end and frame for a Bobtale dump with a allison.Or a roll off. 

[JoeH]

http://www.truckpaper.com/ListingsDetail/Detail.aspx?lp=TRK&OHID=27659059

2004 dm688s cab and chassis with a 400hp e7 and an Allison. Indiana. 

[JoeH]

There's more on there, just need to set the search parameters. Walking beam seems to be common for concrete mixer chassis, I imagine that'd be a stiff ride empty. You could put springs on instead.

I drive a 2001 s/a freightliner oil truck in the winter, and I've driven a 2015 KW propane truck. They are nice to drive, the 2015 was a rocket even loaded. Watch out for speeding tickets and aggressive driving, the newer ones keep up with cars on takeoff, which can be dangerous.

Edited September 9, 2019 by JoeH

[ivanuke]

On 9/8/2019 at 8:24 PM, Maxidyne said:

Are you thinking of converting a tractor to a straight dump truck?

Yes I plan to start manufacturing my own dump boxes, so I'm looking to convert tractor to dump trucks.

[Maxidyne]

Keep in mind that the typical road tractor has only a 1/4" single frame, a 12,000 pound rated front axle, 40,000 pound rear axles, and an optimistic 52,000 pound GVW rating, and an air ride rear suspension that doesn't provide enough articulation for off road use. It'll work as a dump truck if you stay well within those limitations, but to be competitive in most areas of the country a dump truck needs at least a 60,000 pound GVW.

[JoeH]

Pennsylvania most of our dump trucks are triaxles rated at 73,280 lbs. 

Tractor frames also are not typically as deep as traditional dump trucks, so when you raise the dump body the hoist cylinder puts a massive point load on the frame right behind the cab. Watch for frame failures around the back of the cab. You really should be running double frame chassis for dump truck work.

[JoeH]

Unless of course they're single axle dumps and the dump bodies have their own subframe that disperses the hoist cylinder point load.

[ivanuke]

2 hours ago, Maxidyne said:

Keep in mind that the typical road tractor has only a 1/4" single frame, a 12,000 pound rated front axle, 40,000 pound rear axles, and an optimistic 52,000 pound GVW rating, and an air ride rear suspension that doesn't provide enough articulation for off road use. It'll work as a dump truck if you stay well within those limitations, but to be competitive in most areas of the country a dump truck needs at least a 60,000 pound GVW.

Thank you for that info. In Houston my trucks only haul about 12 tons of select fill to various construction sites, theyre on the road 80% of the time during transport, the other 20% or so loading/dumping at the construction sites. At the loading sites they regularly repair the entrances so its not harsh on the chassis. My biggest issues are the drivers. 

Edited September 14, 2019 by ivanuke

[ivanuke]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Unless of course they're single axle dumps and the dump bodies have their own subframe that disperses the hoist cylinder point load.

Youre correct, the dump bodies have their own subframe thats also mounted on the chassis. 

[Maxidyne]

Are you adding a pusher axle on these trucks?

[ivanuke]

4 hours ago, Maxidyne said:

Are you adding a pusher axle on these trucks?

No pusher axle. My trucks are registered at 52k and 54k. Anything more than 55.9k I believe I have to pay highway tax which I don't need to, I don't go over 54k for my business needs. Occasionally I will haul some crushed concrete but it is rare.

Edited September 14, 2019 by ivanuke

[Maxidyne]

Usually a Mack tractor will have a 12,000 rated front axle and 40,000 pound rated rear axle, but the Texas weight limit on the tandem is 34,000. Texas will sell you a permit for 10% over on the axles which would allow you 37,400 on the tandem but the front axle is limited by it's 12,000 pound rating, so the heaviest you can run provided your within bridge formula is 49.400, so no point in licensing for over that. With that 12 yard box I hope your loads are light, wet soil car run 3000 pounds a yard and would probably push your load well over legal weight and invoke a liability for that HUT you're trying to avoid. You're doing it the hard way, easier to start with a real dump truck.

[ivanuke]

9 hours ago, Maxidyne said:

Usually a Mack tractor will have a 12,000 rated front axle and 40,000 pound rated rear axle, but the Texas weight limit on the tandem is 34,000. Texas will sell you a permit for 10% over on the axles which would allow you 37,400 on the tandem but the front axle is limited by it's 12,000 pound rating, so the heaviest you can run provided your within bridge formula is 49.400, so no point in licensing for over that. With that 12 yard box I hope your loads are light, wet soil car run 3000 pounds a yard and would probably push your load well over legal weight and invoke a liability for that HUT you're trying to avoid. You're doing it the hard way, easier to start with a real dump truck.

I agree I would like to have all purpose built dump trucks, one of my macks is but it was expensive, but in order to grow my fleet and remain competitive in terms of driver pay/profits, I have to purchase used tractors from the auction sites and equip them with dump boxes (they will work perfectly fine for our business). The loads are light, the supply company is liable for over loading us so they are light loads. Dirt hauling in Houston is tough and competitive, the rates are 50-55hr or 500-600 per day. The goal is to have 5 trucks in total. I can't justify paying 50-60k for granites or similar dump trucks. 

[JoeH]

PA triaxle rates are in the $75-$100 per hour range I do believe. I don't know how different operating costs are, but 55 for a triaxle? Not sure how anyone makes money on that.

[ivanuke]

48 minutes ago, JoeH said:

PA triaxle rates are in the $75-$100 per hour range I do believe. I don't know how different operating costs are, but 55 for a triaxle? Not sure how anyone makes money on that.

I don't have any triaxles, but I believe the rate is about 65hr, the 50-55 rate is for tandem. Most of the work we do is very light, and usually hauling dirt for new pad constructions for homes or freeway construction. Its not as lucrative, but the work is plentiful. Diesel is 2.40gal and I do 100% of my own maintenance and repairs. It helps.

Edited September 15, 2019 by ivanuke

[Maxidyne]

$55/hour for a tandem dump & driver? I'd find something more profitable!

[ivanuke]

1 hour ago, Maxidyne said:

$55/hour for a tandem dump & driver? I'd find something more profitable!

unfortunately that's the rate down here  this is why I am going to limit to 5 trucks max. This isn't my only source of income, I also do fabrication, and engineering work, which I am going to start building dump boxes, it all ties in to our operations. We've made lots of friends and good contacts with other owner/operators of dump trucks. Most of them are in need of new boxes. Good way for us to network as well.

Edited September 15, 2019 by ivanuke

[Maxidyne]

That's a better business plan- small volume manufacturing requires more skills than trucking and thus tends to earn higher pay.

[Mack Technician]

Throw out a pic of your custom build.

[ivanuke]

4 minutes ago, Mack Technician said:

Throw out a pic of your custom build.

I haven't made any bodies yet, I plan to start in October. I've had my bodies made by a local shop, although I think they get a kit from someone else and just do the welding work. I've made some designs in Fusion 360 that I think would be overall improvements. They are semi round. Here is a photo of my first two I had made locally. Aside from design improvements I plan to add some inclinometers for added safety when dumping. Its not my priority though, I need to finalize my design first.