Front axle beam worn eye. R-model

[Vladislav]

Took a front axle off the 2nd R apart to revise and restore. After I got the king pins out (with heat and a sladge hammer) I found out both holes in the beam rusty and one of them allowed the kingpin to play at its lower area. I basically cleaned the hole with wire brush and a bit of sandpaper and after that the pin could be set quite good in the left hole but the right side allowed it to move for nearly 0.5 mm (1/16") and the movement was more in the side directions than front to rear. So looked like the eye was worn.

A question - is there any practice reaming beam eyes for taper kingpins? And if yes where to look for the tool?

The axle is Mack FAW537 12000lb.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

[wilbur]

Stemco makes a sleeve for this.  You have to bore the axle and install the tapered sleeve which is straight on the od. and tapered on the id.

http://www.stemco.com/product/ape/            axle surgeon does this also but they are pricey.  normal price around here is 400 a side

[Vladislav]

Do they weld the sleeve in the beam or make stepped seat? I was offered to do the similar thing locally, They mill out the hole and make a sleeve with a lathe. But the wear seems of not too much to me. So basic reaming could work if having a correct reamer.

Thanks for the guidance.

[wilbur]

the sleeve is pressed in.

[Vladislav]

Wonder which way the sleeve transfer the load applied on kingpin? Or more correctly to say the load which axle beam normally applys to the kingpin by its taper. Seems like the sleeve must be dead stuck in the beam. Otherwise the latter would be sitting on a knuckle's lower eye instead of the bottom bearing.

[Freightrain]

You would think the sleeve would go in from the bottom with a step to be able to hold position.

With the axle out of the truck, taking it to a shop with a mill might be cheaper?

 

I rebuilt the axle on my Cub cadet tractor at work on a horizontal mill.  I bushed the spindles and center pivot.

[Swishy]

If its a show truck n not a work truck 

shim the wear part with sum Stainless steel cut from a flat sheet n mold it to fit n take up the slack

FWIW

cya

[davehummell]

Franconi's used to bush front axles, they had a setup that clamped over the pin hole and pete would bore it out and press in a sleave then ream it out to fit the pin. The local ups used this on all the delivery trucks. It didn't hold up for more than 1 or 2 years. Pete and I always figured it was a real crappy fix but mikey bought the set up just for doing ups trucks.It didn't do anything over a 6 or 7 thousand lbs. axle.

[Hayseed]

1 hour ago, Swishy said:

If its a show truck n not a work truck 

shim the wear part with sum Stainless steel cut from a flat sheet n mold it to fit n take up the slack

FWIW

cya

I thought You'd use a bit of Coke can Swish..

 

if you only need to pass an inspection..???

Run  some "spatter" over the King Pin with a Stick Welder, hammer It back In, Pump it Full of Grease. & get It Inspected Immediately

[Swishy]

coke cans tooo F soft

bin there dun th@

our R n F model Mack have adjustable kingpin / bearing preload

LOL

cya

[Vladislav]

15 hours ago, Freightrain said:

You would think the sleeve would go in from the bottom with a step to be able to hold position.

With the axle out of the truck, taking it to a shop with a mill might be cheaper?

 

I rebuilt the axle on my Cub cadet tractor at work on a horizontal mill.  I bushed the spindles and center pivot.

Yes, that's what I currently think about. The axle is out of the truck and I can bring it to machine shop. Just keep suggestions on figuring the most correct way. Installing the proper angle for milling the hole seems as a possible issue.

Actually I have a spare axle of a bit heavier rating which seems as the same knuckles and the beam similar by its look. The axle is FAW538, not FAW537. My original plan was to keep it for future projects but now I'm going to take it apart and see how the beam is good or bad.

Also I was likely to keep the original beam to have its stamping accorded to the factory records. But would better use one with just different markings than loose technical condition.

[Vladislav]

The truck is a show truck indeed. But I sandblast the parts, paint them in a shop and going to install new king pins etc. So see no reason for poor repairs.

[Freightrain]

If one side is fine, then they should be able to figure the correct angle to machine the other.  A large horizontal mill would be my choice, a small Bridgeport would be difficult to manage. 

 

A large horizontal table, lay the axle on its side, align the spindle with the good side and build a back stop to put the spring pads against.  Now flip it around and put the pads against the stops and you should have the correct angle to fix the bad side. 

 

Wish you were a few countries closer........, I have two large Mills at work that could do this kind of job.

[41chevy]

Tapered Piloted reamers for doing kingpins are available from Brown and Sharpe and a few Aviation tool suppliers. Average is around 90 to 100 USD

My very old Snap on kingpin press kit came with  6 different piloted tapered kingpin reamers. I believe that are all a 7degree taper. 

The axle for my mixer was done at Riverhead Spring. The axle "eye" was bored out and a new pice was pulled out of the freezer and pressed in. When it warmed up it was in there permanant. Riverhead used 4130 to make the repair part from and tapered reamer to fit the kingpin. They said as long as you keep it greased it will last a long time.

Edited October 13, 2019 by 41chevy

[Vladislav]

On 10/12/2019 at 11:47 PM, Freightrain said:

If one side is fine, then they should be able to figure the correct angle to machine the other.  A large horizontal mill would be my choice, a small Bridgeport would be difficult to manage. 

 

A large horizontal table, lay the axle on its side, align the spindle with the good side and build a back stop to put the spring pads against.  Now flip it around and put the pads against the stops and you should have the correct angle to fix the bad side. 

 

Wish you were a few countries closer........, I have two large Mills at work that could do this kind of job.

I think I can find a big mill with a horizontal table. Just don't forget you should align not only vertical of the holes but to the side bias also. This was I think you need to install the beam at an angle (support) to have the good hole straight against vertically set drill tool and measure an angle the beam is to the table. Than reset the beam with a bad side to the drill and check the angle. Might even be needed to mill the spring pad areas since they're just castings and wouldn't give you perfect seat to obtain a certain angle.

In this particular case taking the difficulties to account and having a spare beam I lean toward using the latter one. Have the spare axle taken apart and found it straight and the holes of good condition. And even checked both beams on massiveness and found exactly the same figure of 200lbs (90kilo's)

Anyway I would like to know solutions to fix that kind of issue since could easily meet it in the future.

[Vladislav]

On 10/13/2019 at 6:54 AM, 41chevy said:

Tapered Piloted reamers for doing kingpins are available from Brown and Sharpe and a few Aviation tool suppliers. Average is around 90 to 100 USD

My very old Snap on kingpin press kit came with  6 different piloted tapered kingpin reamers. I believe that are all a 7degree taper. 

The axle for my mixer was done at Riverhead Spring. The axle "eye" was bored out and a new pice was pulled out of the freezer and pressed in. When it warmed up it was in there permanant. Riverhead used 4130 to make the repair part from and tapered reamer to fit the kingpin. They said as long as you keep it greased it will last a long time.

Paul,

I went through Brown and Sharpe tools and found the largest taper reamers of 1.33 OD (and $500 worth). Mack king pins are even larger. Also not sure about 7 degree taper. That angle was marked as used for tie rod end holes (and plenty of reamers to fix those holes and up to 1") but I found no facts of what the king pin taper is.

If milling the holes in a beam it's possible to make the sleeve by lathe and cut the taper already in there before pressing in. I suppose it wouldn't deform really much after in. Also the king pin would add pressure and correct minor "outofshapenesses". Also if I were doing the job I would make a step seat for the sleeve and weld it over to the beam on both sides.

[Vladislav]

On 10/12/2019 at 11:47 PM, Freightrain said:

If one side is fine, then they should be able to figure the correct angle to machine the other.  A large horizontal mill would be my choice, a small Bridgeport would be difficult to manage. 

 

A large horizontal table, lay the axle on its side, align the spindle with the good side and build a back stop to put the spring pads against.  Now flip it around and put the pads against the stops and you should have the correct angle to fix the bad side. 

 

Wish you were a few countries closer........, I have two large Mills at work that could do this kind of job.

Ok, now I figure completely about the trick with stops against the pads. You was talking about a horizontal mill. But those are scarce overhere. What I could find is a vertical mill which has movement of the spindle down to 90 degree. So could work as a horizontal machine. Bad thing I haven't reached that shop and didn't see the equipement myself.

[Freightrain]

 I'm using our 4'x8'(table size) Giddings and Lewis horizontal to drill the bolt pattern on my flywheel when I had to enlarge the holes.   

We have a 4x6 table version also.

 

Here is the axle for my Cub Cadet lawn tractor.  I rebushed the pivot pin and the two spindles with brass bushings. The axle was really worn out and I was able to buy the correct bushing right from McMaster Carr.  I basically did just what I told you.  Set it up with stops so I could keep the angles correct.  I don't have any pictures of it on the mill, but I did use the 4x6 G/L.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Freightrain

[Vladislav]

4 hours ago, Freightrain said:

 I'm using our 4'x8'(table size) Giddings and Lewis horizontal to drill the bolt pattern on my flywheel when I had to enlarge the holes.   

We have a 4x6 table version also.

 

Here is the axle for my Cub Cadet lawn tractor.  I rebushed the pivot pin and the two spindles with brass bushings. The axle was really worn out and I was able to buy the correct bushing right from McMaster Carr.  I basically did just what I told you.  Set it up with stops so I could keep the angles correct.  I don't have any pictures of it on the mill, but I did use the 4x6 G/L.

Oh Larry, my only emotion is drool....

Unfortunately heavy machinery is getting scarce overhere. During Soviet Union times plenty of equipement was produced and imported. All it worked at plants producing, producing, producing... Unfortunately the plan economy didn't plan really efficient. So a lot of stuff was made for no reason or of poor quality. In the end when Perestroika began the most of heavy iron went to scrap. Large plants couldn't work further because of lost of orders and private persons or small companies didn't collect enough of worth to the moment to but property large enough to keep machinery or couldn't afford its purchase.

[Freightrain]

Vlad, I feel pretty lucky to even have this equipment at my disposal.  The added benefit of knowing enough to run it is a real plus.  I'll never claim to be a machinist, but I can turn handles well enough to make most of the things I need.  I've been here 34 yrs come Jan 2020, so I've had plenty of time to learn.  I've taught myself everything, including machining and many versions of welding(TIG, MIG, Plasma, brazing).

When you can't afford to pay someone to do it, you learn to do it yourself.

[41chevy]

On 10/20/2019 at 4:57 PM, Vladislav said:

Paul,

I went through Brown and Sharpe tools and found the largest taper reamers of 1.33 OD (and $500 worth). Mack king pins are even larger. Also not sure about 7 degree taper. That angle was marked as used for tie rod end holes (and plenty of reamers to fix those holes and up to 1") but I found no facts of what the king pin taper is.

If milling the holes in a beam it's possible to make the sleeve by lathe and cut the taper already in there before pressing in. I suppose it wouldn't deform really much after in. Also the king pin would add pressure and correct minor "outofshapenesses". Also if I were doing the job I would make a step seat for the sleeve and weld it over to the beam on both sides.

https://www.carbideanddiamondtooling.com/Long-Pilot-Adjustable-Blade-Reamers-.437-2.562-Inch-Adjustment-Range-King-Pin-Alignment-Reamers-ID-6599-

[Vladislav]

15 hours ago, 41chevy said:

https://www.carbideanddiamondtooling.com/Long-Pilot-Adjustable-Blade-Reamers-.437-2.562-Inch-Adjustment-Range-King-Pin-Alignment-Reamers-ID-6599-

Paul,

With all my apologies, but those are reamers to work out kingpin bushings after they are pressed in. That way they are piloted and cylindrical. What I need is a taper reamer for the hole in the beam.

[Vladislav]

19 hours ago, Freightrain said:

Vlad, I feel pretty lucky to even have this equipment at my disposal.  The added benefit of knowing enough to run it is a real plus.  I'll never claim to be a machinist, but I can turn handles well enough to make most of the things I need.  I've been here 34 yrs come Jan 2020, so I've had plenty of time to learn.  I've taught myself everything, including machining and many versions of welding(TIG, MIG, Plasma, brazing).

When you can't afford to pay someone to do it, you learn to do it yourself.

Larry, I always symphatize to your approach. And it is very similar to what I use to do.

[wilbur]

If you buy a sleeve from stemco all you need to do is bore a straight hole. The sleeve is straight on the od and tapered on the id.  If you ream the axle at a taper where are you going to get an oversize pin.

[Vladislav]

23 hours ago, wilbur said:

If you buy a sleeve from stemco all you need to do is bore a straight hole. The sleeve is straight on the od and tapered on the id.  If you ream the axle at a taper where are you going to get an oversize pin.

I'm going to ream it for 1/32" And hope for no need to insert alu foil in between