Mechanical E7 in 2019 (or should I quit being afraid of the 06+)

[ivanuke]

23 minutes ago, Maxidyne said:

I don't get into the details that much, I look at the results. Several big fleets have been pooling their data and reporting it via the North American Council for Freight Efficiency (NACFE). They report that fuel mileage was around 6 MPG before the 2007 emissions requirements and took a hit until the 2010 emissions regulations. With most of those 2007 and previous emissions standards trucks now flushed out of their fleets fuel mileage is now up to around 7 MPG. They track repair costs too, and while their was a rise with the 2007 emissions trucks those costs came back down with the 2010 emissions trucks. So looks like the 2010 and later trucks get MPG as good as the pre-2007 trucks and the repair costs are no higher.

Looking at another pool of data from the hundred truck or so fleet that Joel Morrow of Ploger has been posting about online, their Volvo fleet with the odd Mack is seeing better MPG and less emissions problems from the latest generation of Volvo engines that use Common Rail fuel injection. They've also learned a lot about the care and feeding of emissions systems, for example they're replacing less DPFs since they started preemptively cleaning them before they triggered an alert.  

As for DEF use, it's all over the map... At 28k miles I just had to buy my 2nd $8 jug to feed my 2015 TDI, so I don't worry much about it. Gets the same 40s MPG as my 2003 TDI and both were an improvement from the high 30s of the 2013 that tried to slide by with no SCR and was doing way too many regens.

Like the auto emission controls that everyone struggled with in the 70s and has now forgotten about, the manufacturers are getting better at it and the inventories of rebuildable pre-2007 engines are dwindling, never mind the numbers of rust free trucks to put them in. We're near a decade into SCR, 13 years into DPFs, a couple decades into electronic engine controls, and there will soon be no way back.

Theres an undeniable fact that industries are using Big Data to improve their products and services, I sometimes wonder if I am in the sweet spot between old but not too old, and still relevant in the future. I choose to cap my fleet up to 2007 and no older than 2001 (but should probably stay no older than 2004) in hopes that if the government mandates something taking the older trucks off the road, my fleet is safe (not sure if itll happen but you never know)

Were now into industry 4.0 and whether we like it or not, self driving rigs are coming too, maybe within 15-20 years. I do think the gap is widening to where it just won't be viable to use old equipment vs those that use new stuff. But until that breakthrough happens where theres no need for a driver, i think we can still get by with older equipment to still compete in this industry.

Edited November 15, 2019 by ivanuke

[Maxidyne]

You made a good decision, 2006 is the last year for (relatively) simple emissions systems and I'd worry about parts supply and just plain material fatigue on 20+ year old trucks. A decade from now 2010 and later trucks will be the best deals. You're right on older trucks getting banned too- Already happened at some ports and at SEMA the EPA pretty much served notice that they're going after "deleted" trucks, so I figure old trucks are next in line.

[JoeH]

And to think we still run a 1979 r686st nearly every day. I don't see them banning older trucks, they'll just let them phase out from fatigue and lack of parts support.  Though some jobsites may have equipment age standards that'd restrict a few big companies from using older trucks. Not sure they could legally mandate a ban on trucks that are in good working order that are just "too old.". Unless people like AOC keep getting into Congress and think the world will end in 12 years if we don't spend $90 trillion on dumb shit that has nothing to do with the climate. Communist philosophy: every "disaster" is an opportunity for revolution.

Edited November 15, 2019 by JoeH

[Maxidyne]

They're so few trucks from the 70s still running that banning them wouldn't accomplish anything, but they pass bans because it makes them feel good. Sort of like the mandated 6% market share for electric cars proposed here in Minnesota. I did the numbers and even at 6% market penetration by the 2030s they'd only get about a 1% reduction in greenhouse gasses, not worth the bother. So I went to a public hearing on the plan and used that in my testimony against the electric car mandate, but I used real science that they didn't want to hear so I was ignored.

[HeavyGunner]

just thought I’d share how I was able to get rid of that annoying droning sound in here at times been really peaceful when you can’t hear it.  Or maybe you’re tired of hearing me.  Either way I hope it makes everyone’s BmT experience as peaceful as mine had been for the last year or so.

Edited November 15, 2019 by HeavyGunner
Damn autocorrect

[TS7]

I know what you mean Heavy Gunner, I thought Barry fixed that. 

[Mack Technician]

Bedeviled if I voluntarily blind my senses with painkillers.

[HeavyGunner]

2 hours ago, TS7 said:

I know what you mean Heavy Gunner, I thought Barry fixed that. 

Nope.

[41chevy]

10 hours ago, JoeH said:

And to think we still run a 1979 r686st nearly every day. I don't see them banning older trucks, they'll just let them phase out from fatigue and lack of parts support.  Though some jobsites may have equipment age standards that'd restrict a few big companies from using older trucks. Not sure they could legally mandate a ban on trucks that are in good working order that are just "too old.". Unless people like AOC keep getting into Congress and think the world will end in 12 years if we don't spend $90 trillion on dumb shit that has nothing to do with the climate. Communist philosophy: every "disaster" is an opportunity for revolution.

Picture new trucks with electronics in my business spending weeks at the shore line during tide out at the Atlantic or on a barge in the ocean. Much as I would like a few late models it would never work. I've actually gotten contracts because my units are pre electronic. Mine go from 1969 to 1990 and most are ex DOD units. I have come to like the Cat 16 speed semi autos too. 

[JoeH]

Electronics and salt conditions, not a good mix!

[41chevy]

4 hours ago, Mack Technician said:

Bedeviled if I voluntarily blind my senses with painkillers.

Do what my grandson does at Cat. . .Moxie, Smarties and Oreos for the energy boost

[Mack Technician]

6 hours ago, 41chevy said:

Picture new trucks with electronics in my business spending weeks at the shore line during tide out at the Atlantic or on a barge in the ocean. Much as I would like a few late models it would never work. I've actually gotten contracts because my units are pre electronic. Mine go from 1969 to 1990 and most are ex DOD units. I have come to like the Cat 16 speed semi autos too. 

Salt and cold sweat. We only see sweat for two months up here, southerners must have it all year?

Years back a guy asked me to road trip to check a Florida Mack CH613, perfect set-up. Truck was ruined. Steering wheel was covered with rust spots. ECM on engine looked like a white powdered donut and was nearly rotted off the attaching bolts. Condensation damage. Here you only get it until the ground frost and cold leave the concrete parking slabs. 

[TS7]

Maxidyne you do not have what it takes to own a truck and make money at it. It takes hard work and a get it done attitude.  A union clock watcher like you cannot  make it on there own. This country was built by people who worked hard and got things done, no matter what and pushed on even when it looked real hard.  

[Maxidyne]

We Teamsters know all about hard work. The difference is that we don't have to go broke buying a truck, spend our day off fixing it, and work 'til we can't and then die broke.

[JoeH]

There's some obvious animosity here that I didn't pick up on, cool it and get back to OP. No need for union/non union bickering, it only makes you appear like a teenager.

[keg1]

i drive for an ltl company. i was in a 07 international with 1.3 million on it ran every day. you might have some little thing wrong but was fixed that night and back to work next day. newer trucks we have dashes light up buzzers go off and they're down for days or weeks. i took a 16 mack because i figured its only a matter of time until they retire the older ones even though they make money every day. i still say its smarter to rebuild the older ones.

[Maxidyne]

Unless it has an engine "built" in 2006, a 2007 has EGR, DPF, and all the other emissions stuff.

[irishflyer97]

I think I've found my truck.  2000 CH, 220k on dealer reman 400, and turbo,  Mack rears, but super 10 trans.  Truck is pretty straight, runs and drives well.  No Jakes/Leash, but I'll be in flat ground.  No blowby seen.  Affordable.  It will get a T2180 in a couple of months.  I was frankly shocked on how well it rode bobtail (24.5 talls probably some of it).

  Reliability is more important than mpg in this situation. I talked with a former Mack mechanic who know runs a tow company.  He runs E7 mechanical for the reliability.  He said towing emission trucks has paid for it.  That speaks volumes.

[terry]

good move where in Nebr. are you?

[Mack Technician]

2 hours ago, irishflyer97 said:

It will get a T2180 in a couple of months. 

Why not run the Super 10, that's a decent trans to drive 400HP through?

[irishflyer97]

6 hours ago, terry said:

good move where in Nebr. are you?

I am out by North Platte.  In the Sandhills.

[irishflyer97]

4 hours ago, Mack Technician said:

Why not run the Super 10, that's a decent trans to drive 400HP through?

Just personal taste.  A small concern on gearing; with the 24 talls, probably 3:73, gears, I have to check to see if a Super 10 has low enough hear ratios to operate on sometimes soft dirt.  I'll probably find out the first gear of the Super 10 and the T2180 are the same..lol.  The tires could stand a chance, and maybe switching to 24 low pro would be enough to leave the Super 10. 

[TS7]

JoeH there is lot you do not know. The person who goes by Maxidyne  was banned by Barry, but came back anyway. This persons actions show what they stand for. As for myself I will speak out against anyone who puts down people who own there own trucks, that is what this person has done on this site for a long time. I could add a lot more to this, but I will not. This person can post what ever they want, this is a free site, but I can too and will. One more thing I am a 46 year union member  and I know all about union greed and have seen for myself the results. 

[JoeH]

I fail to see where in this thread he needed a smackdown.

[HeavyGunner]

38 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I fail to see where in this thread he needed a smackdown.

Go search gearheadgrrrl or teamstergrrrl in bmt. She has continually harassed people on here for using older trucks, pickups and anything bigger than her lawn tractor. Yes she has been much much quieter this past year or so but just wait. This latest reincarnation will get mouthy and obnoxious again, Barry will ban that username and she'll come back and do it again. Oh and did I mention if you don’t agree with her you’ll get called everything but human by her. Yes we have little to no patience for her but there’s lots of reasons why. Now back to the thread.