Wheely good question for me

[mrsmackpaul]

Alcoa 10 stud rims 

Or Budd rims you blokes call them I think

I have noticed there are two types mentioned on here 

Piloted mounted or some such thing and the other type

So this may seem dumb to you lot  but apart from Budd rims on a old truck with  double nuts  and rims on a Isuzu that rims just clamped up really really tight these are the only two stud mounted rims on trucks I have had any thing to do with 

I gather the Isuzu was a pilot mounted jobby and the other was Budd as it had that stamped on the rims

 

I have only spider hubs on trucks and trailers 

You blokes call spiders dayton or some such thing 

 

So can some body give me the low down on the ten stud jobs and the whats what and whos who of them 

 

Thanjs in advance fgor thw wisdom 

 

Paul

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by mrsmackpaul

[Vladislav]

I had to investigate that matter some years back since had no knowledge about truck wheels at all.

So.. Everything earlier nearly 1990 were the style with two nuts as you pointed out. The wheels had 10 holes and each hole had recess or a cavit to accomodate the nut cone. Those were made on both sides of the wheel to be possible using it both on fronts or rears. Having that cone attachment the wheel gets proper seat over the studs being set by the cones so that type was correctly called as a stood piloted wheel. I also saw sources where it was called "ball seat". Some numbers. Stud hole ID 1,219" (31mm), hub bore 8.37" (221.7mm)

About 1990 or a bit later wheel attachment got improvement. Starting from that point wheel seats tighter on the hub and centers over it. So this style is called a hub piloted wheel.The studs got different OD and the thread step and the holes in the wheel were made less of the size. When you put the wheel on the hub you fit it with nuts which are flat where they get against the wheel. The wheel is flat over the stud holes too. At rear you put both wheels on the studs and than put only one nut on every stud and tight up. Probably you tight the nut harder than if use stud piloted style but I didn't learn that matter. Those wheels were bored for 220.1mm at the hub hole (a bit tighter than stud piloted style as you can see) and the stud holes are 26.75mm.

Also I learned that you can determine the wheel style from Alcoa part#. For example stud piloted 8.25x24.5 wheel is 983100. Or 983101 if polished outside, 983102 inside, 983103 both sides. But the same size hub piloted wheel is 983600 (601,602,603)

Edited May 5, 2020 by Vladislav

[Ezrider]

the budd wheels are stud pilot, use a tapered ball and seat to center the rim on the hub. hub pilot witch is the later 10 hole style are hub pilot the wheel centers on the hub and the nuts clamp it in place. 

one common misconception is that is that a stud pilot wheel the weight of the truck is carried on the stud and hub pilot the weight is carried on the hub. neither is true. the weight is carried by the faces being clamped together the difference is just in how they locate the wheel on the hub when mounting them. 

here is a video i did converting the steer axle on my old peterbilt from budd to hub pilot.  the rear ends were converted because everything on the rear of the truck is off a 2010 truck

 

 

[jzack]

• Follow up question- How many ft/lbs do you torque the "outer" nut to on the budd style wheels? I've seen sources say 600ft/lbs for outer, 450ft/lbs for the inners. But most people seem to say 450ft/lbs for both. I'm asking because i've been having problems with my lugs coming loose.  

[carlotpilot]

450 for both seems to work

[JoeH]

On 5/5/2020 at 9:23 PM, jzack said:

• Follow up question- How many ft/lbs do you torque the "outer" nut to on the budd style wheels? I've seen sources say 600ft/lbs for outer, 450ft/lbs for the inners. But most people seem to say 450ft/lbs for both. I'm asking because i've been having problems with my lugs coming loose.  

If they're coming loose then they're not tight enough.  You could replace the studs and nuts.

[j hancock]

I had a wheel one time that would never stay tight.  Turned out that it had been run loose for a while and the tapered seats in the wheel had become wallowed out.  It would always work loose after tightening.  Replaced that one wheel and never had a problem again.

[davehummell]

I figure after putting up with bud wheels all the years if i had a chance i would of shot whoever come up with the design what a pisspor excuse for wheel retention on the hubs give me dayton or hubpilot.