Range Syncroniser Removal in Chassis?

[DieselDog5.9]

So I have a 2003 CV 700 with an 18 speed, T318 Perhaps, and the syncroniser is junk, aparently this is the week point in this transmission.  Here is the Question,  Rumor has it the rear of the box can be removed and the syncronizer changed in the truck with a special tool to hold the counter shafts.

Is this more of a pain timing the countershafts, or is it worth the hastle to keep from removing the transmission?

Is there a special instructions for doing this proceedure?

What is the special tool and how can I source one?

All information Apreciated.

Edited April 17, 2020 by DieselDog5.9

[Mack Technician]

Worth it. Flat rate mechanic does it in 8-12 hours without removing the trans. Pumps and lines and PTO add time.  

Timing isn’t an issue. Count the teeth and paint marks. Equal distances. Shafts stay in and engaged. You slide the synchro out, repair, and right back into countershafts. 

Mack publishes a book for the T2 transmissions, but the tools are the same and procedure is basically the same. 

You need a special tapered sleeve to install shift cover Teflon seals, I do it at the dealership I worked for, they don’t mind. 

You need a special plate to retain the countershafts while you work. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Mack Technician

[DieselDog5.9]

Funny Truck Shop sent me over here and refered to someone by the handle Mack Technician.  (on a truck website can it be a handle rather than some computer guy term)

 

[Mack Technician]

Too bad your so far away. I got quarantine madness, the plate tool and a willingness to work cheap. 

[R.E.D]

This manual is on ebay for 50$ .... covers what your wanting to do.

[Mack Technician]

Don’t have to buy it, Mack e-media has a free download....go to “Mack E-media” and search “10-710”

J-41028 is the plate tool

Edited April 17, 2020 by Mack Technician

[david wild]

What, a weak point in a Mack trans, how can that be those things are like the best thing since sliced bread and sex ??? never break easy to shift and real quiet, man I musta got into some real good drugs somewhere,  save yourself some money and piece of mind, pull it out and put a fuller in, and if you miss the great 4 reverse gears buy a 2 speed aux (at1202)  you will be way ahead. 

[Mack Technician]

Never mind Dave, his family was murdered by a T318L. 

[fjh]

Just my opinion the CL is the easiest truck to work on if the truck has no pto ! take the trans out stand it on end and Take it apart that way!  also if this trans has Cummins in front of it the job gets more complicated the tail shaft bearings have to be set in the press! And there may be an extra spacer you'll need to buy from mack to set the preload! You could wait for days for the plate to do a job in the truck  once on the ground you don’t need the plate. The spacer you may need was updated from a crush sleeve to a solid unit of varying to be determined  thicknesses!  Also if your determined to do this yourself ,Price your parts thru PAI quite a bit cheaper than Mack stuff and as  good quality! As for the shift cyl I would leave it alone the seals in that a quite durable unlike the range clutch! 😒nuf said!😁

again an opinion!

Edited April 17, 2020 by fjh

[R.E.D]

12 hours ago, Mack Technician said:

Don’t have to buy it, Mack e-media has a free download....go to “Mack E-media” and search “10-710”

J-41028 is the plate tool

Nice ...I had this on watch to buy...but nothing beats free.thanks Mack tech

[DieselDog5.9]

We did think about switching to an Eaton Fuller 18 Speed, but need to get back to work without the BS of extending the driveshaft and other associated bs that would need to be modified.

She is an ornery shifting bitch.

 

[Mack Technician]

56 minutes ago, R.E.D said:

Nice ...I had this on watch to buy...but nothing beats free.thanks Mack tech

Cheers RED! That worked out well. I couldn’t FIND the free publication till I read it on your picture’s front page, I had been looking through E-media and not finding it.

22 minutes ago, DieselDog5.9 said:

 

She is an ornery shifting bitch.

 

You may have just made Dave’s day.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Mack Technician
M

[Mack Technician]

13 hours ago, fjh said:

Just my opinion the CL is the easiest truck to work on if the truck has no pto ! take the trans out stand it on end and Take it apart that way!  also if this trans has Cummins in front of it the job gets more complicated the tail shaft bearings have to be set in the press! And there may be an extra spacer you'll need to buy from mack to set the preload! You could wait for days for the plate to do a job in the truck  once on the ground you don’t need the plate. The spacer you may need was updated from a crush sleeve to a solid unit of varying to be determined  thicknesses!  Also if your determined to do this yourself ,Price your parts thru PAI quite a bit cheaper than Mack stuff and as  good quality! As for the shift cyl I would leave it alone the seals in that a quite durable unlike the range clutch! 😒nuf said!😁

again an opinion!

Fred, correct me if I’m wrong. He can’t leave the shift cylinder on since the cylinder has to come off to miss the cab X-Member (with ISX). ISX moved the trans back. So in the case of in-chassis you pull shift cylinder, and out of chassis on bench you can leave it in.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Mack Technician

[DieselDog5.9]

No ISX here, In Northern New England we dont mess with macks and do funky new age stuff, Macks are Macks, E7, Mack Trans(12spd prefered), camelback, with spoke wheels, once in a while some hippy will have an 8LL Eaton Fuller.

I would guess within 30 miles I have the largest concentration of E9's in the country.  One retired logger I know has a marine E9 they put Jakes on.

The publication number is 10-701, hard to find things on that site but I looked at the kent moore book and got the number.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by DieselDog5.9

[R.E.D]

39 minutes ago, DieselDog5.9 said:

We did think about switching to an Eaton Fuller 18 Speed, but need to get back to work without the BS of extending the driveshaft and other associated bs that would need to be modified.

She is an ornery shifting bitch.

 

If you do decide make the swap.try to get the steel (iron) bell housing.The aluminum one doesn't like the torque twist when off road and the pressed fittings come loose and since mack engines are only held by the front and transmission engine mounts the engine will fall on it side ..

 

Had this happen on my 96 Rd and engine leaned towards passenger side braking the econovance fitting .it dumped most of the oil and shutoff.had to retap econovance housing on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere while it was 19 degrees outside .

[DieselDog5.9]

Sorry not sure how I did this but truck is a CV700, not a CL.

 

Yes I agree on the bell housing, just changed one on a W900 last week, actually had a cast iron Halo bell housing that broke, not sure but feel like W900 may have been wrecked at one time.

Edited April 17, 2020 by DieselDog5.9

[fjh]

1 hour ago, Mack Technician said:

Fred, correct me if I’m wrong. He can’t leave the shift cylinder on since the cylinder has to come off to miss the cab X-Member (with ISX). ISX moved the trans back. So in the case of in-chassis you pull shift cylinder, and out of chassis on bench you can leave it in.

Top REAR engine mount rubbers removed the trans should clear the x member  shift cyl on!

[Mack Technician]

When I do in-chassis synchro on the ISX I typically do range cylinder removed to clear case removal. I think we are talking about two different things, your talking about trans removal. 

I’ve attempted the Teflon range seals without the tool, you kill it. Good option to leave it if your away from home or special tooling. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Mack Technician

[DieselDog5.9]

H

Hopefully these will do the job

[Mack Technician]

You’ve arrived!

[fjh]

17 hours ago, Mack Technician said:

When I do in-chassis synchro on the ISX I typically do range cylinder removed to clear case removal. I think we are talking about two different things, your talking about trans removal. 

I’ve attempted the Teflon range seals without the tool, you kill it. Good option to leave it if your away from home or special tooling. 

yup

[Mack Technician]

12 hours ago, DieselDog5.9 said:

H

Hopefully these will do the job

Use the 1/4” screws in each corner and plant them against a tooth edge. You can do it without loading them, but.......if you load them you stay straight, if you don’t you’ll be floppy’n sloppy. 

[DieselDog5.9]

Yes, took me a minute to figure that one out, moved the gears a wisker to line up on a gear flat, they could have designed the tool with the bolts 3/4 inch lower, got your message when I got home was glad to get verification. This picture shows the tool in place and the rear box off.

[Mack Technician]

Yeah, don’t know why they put you on a balancing act to hit a tooth edge. 

What was cause of failure? These things can cost as much as a reman or as little as $200 if you shattered a snap ring. They use to use cheap rings then switched to fatties, now instead of popping off they blow up. Fishing parts of that ring out of the front box and PTO belly was key. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Mack Technician

[david wild]

Failure is caused bu piss poor design