When did Mack introduce this style of grille?

[Oso2]

When did Mack introduce this style of grille? Did it completely replace the straight grille?

 

[Mark T]

I believe that's an F model grill someone put on an R model.

[85snowdog]

That grille was on eastern R700's. It has a longer hood than the more common R600. The same grille was on the F model to. 

I don't believe it was used on the western RL / RS 700 at any point . But I could easily be wrong . Hopefully someone can add to this. 

Pics are a brochure pic and my R700 .  

 

[mrsmackpaul]

When the cool powered motors arrived on  the scene 

 

 

Paul 

[Maddog13407]

god I hate that grille almost as much as I hate someone putting Alcoa wheels on the front of a nice lookin R model that has nice Daytons. that grille just reminds me of someone trying to put a ''little extra' bling on a perfectly good R model kinda like putting a drop visor on it

Edited April 30, 2020 by Maddog13407

[Oso2]

That grille was also used on r600's:

 

 

 

 

 

[ws721]

I thought that Grill was used after shutters went out and before Mack realized that the Grill shouldn't tip with the hood.  I could be wrong.  Friend had an 81 with that Grill.   Personally I like it along with Alcoa wheels.   Like the white r with the big fuel tanks. That's cool

[mowerman]

I believe the first one was 1962F model I actually had one I don’t really care for them either on the R model just plain shutters and grill moldings... bob

[mowerman]

Oh I forgot to mention I do like the way they look on the F model.. bob

[Vladislav]

I'm almost with Keith.

That's a standard grille for Eastern R700 with longer hood relating to R600. Sure it was used on F-models originally but fitted to R700 for some reason. If you look at the pic of red truck above you can see the hood has a rib, a kind of a pedestal over the grill opening where the grill attaches. Eastern R600 nor Western RS/RL600/700 never had anything like that.

White R600 with red and black stripes has different grill which doesn't have big framing. In fact that one fits straight onto the intercooler and stays in place while the hood tilts. The spoken R700 grill goes down together with the hood when tilting.

[Truck Shop]

                   I always though the 700's looked like one of these except mack got the grille upside down.

                   

[Maddog13407]

that white trans provincial truck is not the fake lookin put in grille were talkin about. the white truck has an early 80's stainless grille that was attached to the air to air condenser. the red truck has the grllle that goes on the outside

[mrsmackpaul]

31 minutes ago, Maddog13407 said:

that white trans provincial truck is not the fake lookin put in grille were talkin about. the white truck has an early 80's stainless grille that was attached to the air to air condenser. the red truck has the grllle that goes on the outside

Please explain ?

[Whiskymack]

I think I might have the answer to this.

Refer back to this thread:

When Mack brought out the Higher mount R700 in the 70's they must have kept the same radiator as on the earlier models. This meant that the lower edge of the radiator top tank became visible at the top of the opening in the hood and the only way to disguise this was to apply a grill. I dont know the exact date of the change but many of these R700's were Cummins powered and may still have had shutters on the radiator. Whatever the case it looks like there is very little space between the front of the radiator and the hood meaning that any grill would have to go on the outside of the hood, tipping with the hood, rather than being mounted to the radiator and staying put when the hood was tilted. Mack already had a grill on the F model so it probably made sense to use this but this grill is dished inwards so it would have clashed with the front of the radiator. The solution was to apply the raised rib or pedestal around the grill which Vlad talks about as this would have brought the grill further forward. You'd have then thought that the same grill would have been applied to the R600 for design continuity but I don't think this happened in the US although in Australia, both R600 and R700 models had the F model grill from sometime in the 80's.

All guess work base on looking at photos so feel free to shoot me down.

[Terry T]

I've always been partial to this look.  These were new deliveries to our customer in 1978. We delivered 5 of the 7 on a rainy Saturday morning.

[Bullheaded]

I like them all. I both drove and pulled for Trans Provincial and for another local company and ran R's identical to that one. With both spoke and budds on the steers and some with straight pipes between the cab and bunk and some with the stacks behind the bunk. Those R's all pulled heavy. Multi axle trailers pulling steel and dump trailers.

[85snowdog]

6 hours ago, Whiskymack said:

When Mack brought out the Higher mount R700 in the 70's they must have kept the same radiator as on the earlier models. This meant that the lower edge of the radiator top tank became visible at the top of the opening in the hood and the only way to disguise this was to apply a grill.

Thanks for the explanation Whiskymack. It sounds logical to me. To help reinforce what you said, I will add some pics. You can see clearly, the bottom of the rad tank is visible without the grill, and I also added a pic to show how close the grill is to the shutters . Just out of curiosity I measured, and the R700 grill opening is 2.5 inches wider than the R600 opening. I also have a pic of an R600 with rad shutters. You can see that the hood covers the rad tank . 

[Vladislav]

On 5/2/2020 at 5:24 PM, Whiskymack said:

I think I might have the answer to this.

Refer back to this thread:

When Mack brought out the Higher mount R700 in the 70's they must have kept the same radiator as on the earlier models. This meant that the lower edge of the radiator top tank became visible at the top of the opening in the hood and the only way to disguise this was to apply a grill. I dont know the exact date of the change but many of these R700's were Cummins powered and may still have had shutters on the radiator. Whatever the case it looks like there is very little space between the front of the radiator and the hood meaning that any grill would have to go on the outside of the hood, tipping with the hood, rather than being mounted to the radiator and staying put when the hood was tilted. Mack already had a grill on the F model so it probably made sense to use this but this grill is dished inwards so it would have clashed with the front of the radiator. The solution was to apply the raised rib or pedestal around the grill which Vlad talks about as this would have brought the grill further forward. You'd have then thought that the same grill would have been applied to the R600 for design continuity but I don't think this happened in the US although in Australia, both R600 and R700 models had the F model grill from sometime in the 80's.

All guess work base on looking at photos so feel free to shoot me down.

Excellent explanation, thanks! I just never payed attention to a fact that Mack restyled R-700 at some time and that 2nd generation truck achieved the spoken grill. Indeed there were early R700s with shutters or a grill looked like. And they had their cab sitting at the same level as R600s were but the 2nd gen purchased higher cab position so turned out into the hood modification story accompanied by the grill.

[Vladislav]

20 hours ago, 85snowdog said:

Thanks for the explanation Whiskymack. It sounds logical to me. To help reinforce what you said, I will add some pics. You can see clearly, the bottom of the rad tank is visible without the grill, and I also added a pic to show how close the grill is to the shutters . Just out of curiosity I measured, and the R700 grill opening is 2.5 inches wider than the R600 opening. I also have a pic of an R600 with rad shutters. You can see that the hood covers the rad tank .

Keith, thanks for the additional pictures. I just never payed attention to the style of R700 grill so never looked it up close very well. And worth to admitt they are not the most common Mack truck you can see everywhere.

[Whiskymack]

22 hours ago, 85snowdog said:

Thanks for the explanation Whiskymack. It sounds logical to me. To help reinforce what you said, I will add some pics. You can see clearly, the bottom of the rad tank is visible without the grill, and I also added a pic to show how close the grill is to the shutters . Just out of curiosity I measured, and the R700 grill opening is 2.5 inches wider than the R600 opening. I also have a pic of an R600 with rad shutters. You can see that the hood covers the rad tank . 

Thanks for the pictures Keith. They really show how little space there is between the shutters and the hood. This seems to be the case with the R600 as well. I think that when the Econodyne engines came out with the charge air cooling Mack added an inch or so to the front of the hood to allow space for the intercooler on the front of the radiator.

[Vladislav]

On 5/3/2020 at 10:54 PM, Whiskymack said:

Thanks for the pictures Keith. They really show how little space there is between the shutters and the hood. This seems to be the case with the R600 as well. I think that when the Econodyne engines came out with the charge air cooling Mack added an inch or so to the front of the hood to allow space for the intercooler on the front of the radiator.

Mack added 1 inch to the rear edge of R600 hood to accomodate the chassis mounted aftercooler. You can see the difference if look at a hood side behind the rear of fender. After 1982 there's a section of fiberglass prolonging the hood side rearwards to the cab cowl. And pre-82 (shorter hood) doesn't have it and ends right along the fender curve. Once i asked a question on here and got an answer of pre-82 hood length (total?) was 53-3/8" and after 82 it became 54-1/4"

[Whiskymack]

11 hours ago, Vladislav said:

Mack added 1 inch to the rear edge of R600 hood to accomodate the chassis mounted aftercooler. You can see the difference if look at a hood side behind the rear of fender. After 1982 there's a section of fiberglass prolonging the hood side rearwards to the cab cowl. And pre-82 (shorter hood) doesn't have it and ends right along the fender curve. Once i asked a question on here and got an answer of pre-82 hood length (total?) was 53-3/8" and after 82 it became 54-1/4"

I see what you mean Vlad. I'd always assumed the extra was added to the front end but it was probably easier to add to the back end. I'm now wondering if they moved the cab back or moved the hood forward.

[Whiskymack]

To answer my own question it looks like the hood was moved forward based on an '85 Valueliner RS600L spec sheet. The bumper to front wheel centre is given as 29.75 inches whereas it was only 28 on the 70's specsheet. I don't know if the same applied to the Eastern model but it would seem a lot easier to me to extend the bumper mounts and hood hinges than move the cab back.

[85snowdog]

Thanks, Whiskymack and Vlad for the addition information . 

[Vladislav]

11 hours ago, Whiskymack said:

To answer my own question it looks like the hood was moved forward based on an '85 Valueliner RS600L spec sheet. The bumper to front wheel centre is given as 29.75 inches whereas it was only 28 on the 70's specsheet. I don't know if the same applied to the Eastern model but it would seem a lot easier to me to extend the bumper mounts and hood hinges than move the cab back.

My suppose it was done by a different way. If you move front hood attachments you've got the front axle line backwards relating to the wheel arch. Could be done since 1 inch isn't really notable but I myself never noted such offset. In fact moving the hood hinges or cab position is provided by modifying (or moving) mounting brackets. And when you start investigating their design it turns out Mack used different styles of them during the years. Front ones where the hood hinges fit were made as different shape castings on early and newer R's (I tell now about Eastern R600's ) And later RD's starting at least from 1989 got front spring front brackets looking the way the early R's had but I don't know they're similar or not (but suppose they are). Cab front mounts are (as long as I could see) the same on early and later R600's. But front spring rear brackets (the cab mounts are partly bolted onto them) changed their style at some point. So cab could seat different. Worth to take that bolt holes in the frame rail determine the cab bracket position so if they're drilled the same the cab should have constant position. But was the rail drill pattern changed between early and later R's or not is a matter I'm not familiar with. If of real interest the way is requesting Mack Museum for the frame drills layout. If I resolve to modify my frame design with different brackets (I honestly thought about such entertainment for a case of using taller RD600 frame rails for my basic chassis R688) I would bother the museum. But for modelbiulding seems enough to take basic sizes off a production brochure or someone's real truck.

All in all there's plenty of points in a Mack chassis which look simple at the first moment but when you start figuring it turns out many sized and distances differ between the models and production years. In many cases that's not really much but require clearing if you want to provide a correct work.