When was the R700 discontinued?

[Whiskymack]

Just curious about the end production date for the R700. It got a bit of a design revamp in the mid 1970's as we've discussed elsewhere here but it would seem to me that after the introduction of the Superliner there must have been a bit of duplication. The Western RS/RL 700 was discontinued at this time but what about the Eastern R700? All of the larger engine options such as Cummins, Cat, Detroit, 865, 866 and later E9's were available in the Superliner so the R700 would seem a little superfluous in that respect.

[Mike Harbison]

1985

[kscarbel2]

With the RWI Super-Liner in production at Macungie for 1985, we felt that continued production of the R-700 was redundant.

[Whiskymack]

31 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

With the RWI Super-Liner in production at Macungie for 1985, we felt that continued production of the R-700 was redundant.

That makes a lot of sense. Did the R-700 ever get the E9? It seems like there wasn't much room in there for CMCAC without a redesign of the front end.

 

[kscarbel2]

9 minutes ago, Whiskymack said:

That makes a lot of sense. Did the R-700 ever get the E9? It seems like there wasn't much room in there for CMCAC without a redesign of the front end.

That's a good question. I don't recall the E9 being fitted to R-700s. By that time, the R-700 was primarily for Cummins fitment to customers like Ryder, plus the rare CAT order. They did see the ETAZ1000 (multi-speed Eaton trannies) and ETAZ1005A (5-speed Maxidyne spec).

[fjh]

17 minutes ago, Whiskymack said:

That makes a lot of sense. Did the R-700 ever get the E9? It seems like there wasn't much room in there for CMCAC without a redesign of the front end.

 

Lots of mods to fit it have seen it done once! 

[Whiskymack]

24 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

That's a good question. I don't recall the E9 being fitted to R-700s. By that time, the R-700 was primarily for Cummins fitment to customers like Ryder, plus the rare CAT order.

Thats the impression I had got. I would have thought it would have involved too much redesign on a product that had effectively been superceded by the Super-Liner.

Incidentally, if RW1 production went to Macungie in 85 it would must have been quite short lived as I thought that the RW2 emerged the following year. It's an interesting period because there seemed to be a bit of product consolidation going on with the demise of Hayward line. The RW2 was a complete redesign with much more of an Eastern pedigree whilst retaining the looks of the old model. Am I right in thinking the Value-Liner also went to Macungie but was discontinued in 87?

 

[kscarbel2]

I just recalled (it's been years). The R-700 was never redesigned to accommodate CMCAC (chassis-mounted charge air cooling), which was the basis for the "new" E9.  

[Maddog13407]

pretty sure the Valueliner went into the early 90's?? remember being at Macungie around 9192 and almost remember seein cement mixer Valueliner chassis in silver in the back lot? I might be mistaken?

 

[kscarbel2]

I recall we discontinued the Value-Liner thinking the face-lift RD would be an acceptable replacement for both east and west. Our dealers didn't agree and complained. So we created the face-lift RD "Western Contractor" as a replacement for them, for the discontinued Value-Liner. Later, we made the Western Contractor specs optional on the standard RD and discontinued the Western Contractor as a stand alone model.

[85snowdog]

This is an  interesting thread . It reinforces what is repeated a lot on here. Mack listening to customers and building what the customer  wanted. Not building something they say is good for you.

[Whiskymack]

1 hour ago, kscarbel2 said:

I recall we discontinued the Value-Liner thinking the face-lift RD would be an acceptable replacement for both east and west. Our dealers didn't agree and complained. So we created the face-lift RD "Western Contractor" as a replacement for them, for the discontinued Value-Liner. Later, we made the Western Contractor specs optional on the standard RD and discontinued the Western Contractor as a stand alone model.

Yes, I've come across the Western Contractor. Wasn't it an RD with the old hood and a lookalike but slightly smaller Western style grill? I remember seeing a Mack construction brochure from the 80's which had both the Western Contractor and the Value-Liner in the lineup so there must have been a period when both models were available.

[kscarbel2]

3 minutes ago, Whiskymack said:

Yes, I've come across the Western Contractor. Wasn't it an RD with the old hood and a lookalike but slightly smaller Western style grill? I remember seeing a Mack construction brochure from the 80's which had both the Western Contractor and the Value-Liner in the lineup so there must have been a period when both models were available.

With a set-forward front axle.

No, the RD Western Contractor did not exist until after the Value-Liner was discontinued. The lack of a Value-Liner, or a replacement, angered the western dealer body, forcing the issue to be addressed.

[Maxidyne]

There were also some customers that loved the R model so much that even after the R model was discontinued instead of buying CHs they ordered RDs with lighter specs to use as on-highway tractors. I've even seen a couple with sleeper boxes!

[fjh]

1 hour ago, kscarbel2 said:

I recall we discontinued the Value-Liner thinking the face-lift RD would be an acceptable replacement for both east and west. Our dealers didn't agree and complained. So we created the face-lift RD "Western Contractor" as a replacement for them, for the discontinued Value-Liner. Later, we made the Western Contractor specs optional on the standard RD and discontinued the Western Contractor as a stand alone model.

Just my opinion ! In My mind the RD was Tougher design than the value liner! Wasn't a big fan of the straight frame trucks !  Kev wasn't the end  of the valueliner or eastern trucks  kind of a political move to close that plant ?I heard they had big quality control issues at that plant! ?

[Whiskymack]

22 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

No, the RD Western Contractor did not exist until after the Value-Liner was discontinued.

Misleading publicity from Mack! I took a look at that brochure again. There is a picture of an unbadged Value-Liner labelled as an RD but later in the brochure there is a correctly labelled Western Contractor RD! The brochure is dated 87 so the Value-Liner must have gone by then.

Here's a link to it but I can only open it with google Chrome. Firefox or Edge don't seem to like it.

Photo: MackConstr87-04 | Mack Construction Trucks 1987 album | modeltrucks25

[kscarbel2]

2 hours ago, Whiskymack said:

Misleading publicity from Mack! I took a look at that brochure again. There is a picture of an unbadged Value-Liner labelled as an RD but later in the brochure there is a correctly labelled Western Contractor RD! The brochure is dated 87 so the Value-Liner must have gone by then.

Here's a link to it but I can only open it with google Chrome. Firefox or Edge don't seem to like it.

Photo: MackConstr87-04 | Mack Construction Trucks 1987 album | modeltrucks25

You are bringing back memories today. That brochure has a Value-Liner you showed (incorrectly identified as RD), as well as a pre-facelift axle-forward RD with Value-Liner styling. Customers and dealers said it was too heavy, so we didn't sell many. We sold far more post-facelift Western Contractors.

I'm going to say the last model year for Macungie Value-Liner production was 1987.

.

[1965]

24 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

You are bringing back memories today. That brochure has a Value-Liner you showed (incorrectly identified as RD), as well as a pre-facelift axle-forward RD with Value-Liner styling. Customers and dealers said it was too heavy, so we didn't sell many. We sold far more post-facelift Western Contractors.

I'm going to say the last model year for Macungie Value-Liner production was 1987.

.

From hearing you talk; I’d bet very good memories!

[terry]

I like the looks of them RD's.👍 terry

[kscarbel2]

10 hours ago, Maxidyne said:

There were also some customers that loved the R model so much that even after the R model was discontinued instead of buying CHs they ordered RDs with lighter specs to use as on-highway tractors. I've even seen a couple with sleeper boxes!

Yes. If I recall correctly, Chapel Hill, North Carolina-based Kenan Transport ordered RD tractors when the R model was discontinued. In their spec, basically the same truck except with the stronger deeper rails. The weight difference was actually negligible. The ultimate money-making tractor for a tanker fleet.

[Jamaican Bulldog]

What id the V8 mack that was in the R700? The valVe covers looked like E9 but as discussed it wasn't in it. I build models and want to make sure i get it right.

[Whiskymack]

6 hours ago, Jamaican Bulldog said:

What id the V8 mack that was in the R700? The valVe covers looked like E9 but as discussed it wasn't in it. I build models and want to make sure i get it right.

 

I don't know much about the detailed differences but I think late production 865's and 866's may have looked similar to the E9. The obvious difference is that the E9 had Chassis Mounted Charge Air Cooling which meant there was an aftercooler in front of the radiator along with the piping that went with it.

Can we see some models?

[Whiskymack]

17 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

You are bringing back memories today. That brochure has a Value-Liner you showed (incorrectly identified as RD), as well as a pre-facelift axle-forward RD with Value-Liner styling. Customers and dealers said it was too heavy, so we didn't sell many. We sold far more post-facelift Western Contractors.

Glad to bring back memories. I have only ever come across two of those pre facelift Western Contractors; the one in the brochure and the other on this site:

 

[Vladislav]

On 5/14/2020 at 5:18 PM, Whiskymack said:

 

Incidentally, if RW1 production went to Macungie in 85 it would must have been quite short lived as I thought that the RW2 emerged the following year. It's an interesting period because there seemed to be a bit of product consolidation going on with the demise of Hayward line. The RW2 was a complete redesign with much more of an Eastern pedigree whilst retaining the looks of the old model.

 

Was RW1 ever produced at Macungie???

[Vladislav]

11 hours ago, Whiskymack said:

 

I don't know much about the detailed differences but I think late production 865's and 866's may have looked similar to the E9. The obvious difference is that the E9 had Chassis Mounted Charge Air Cooling which meant there was an aftercooler in front of the radiator along with the piping that went with it.

Can we see some models?

865 and 866 differ by the look from E9 having narower valve covers since they had only 2 valves per cylinder. Usually easy to recognize.

There were a few experimental (or a short run) R700's with what Kevin mentioned as ETAZ-1000 or ETAZ-1005 V8 4 valve engines which actually were (as I figure) a pre-series variant of E9. Looking the pics there was no aftercooler but 4V versus 2V is a keystone difference on my mind.

Someone once posted on here a couple of pics of such truck which he was going to buy as I recall.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Vladislav