Turbo Story

[mackcl96]

What I have here is 96 E7-454 (stock 380 to ground) no fun. It had an S-3 turbo from the factory in 1998 Mack said to go with an S-4 (5145AM).

Almost every year Mack said come down we have a hot new program to put in. Some even came from Hagerstown.

(This was the fun part)

Now with high flow inj., pump timing bump up, high flow del. Pump, etc. Now with all hot rod toys parts will fail early, so turbos only last 2 years. So in July of 05, Mack got rid of many of the older turbos (Service bulletin 214019).

So my replacement turbo is now 5173MX, which is much smaller, then the 5145AM.

Mack (HQ) said you can not use an(5173MX E-Tech turbo)it is only rated for 30 psi boost, stock 454 makes 34 psi boost, and Borg Warner said 31 psi tops.

Week later Mack said that 5173MX has been tested and will work so I put it on. Found out anything over 30 psi it would howl, the old turbo would produce 45 psi. This one 33 psi and screaming, hot pyro, hot water temp and poor fuel mileage.

Called Mack (HQ) they sent service rep to ride with me. To weeks later they tell me it would work if your truck were stock. So it’is your problem. My jaw hit the floor. Now I have $1300 paperweight in the garage and had to find a 5145M4, which is the same as my old one.

What this boils down to is, if you buy a used truck and is running good and don't know the history of it, or if you turn up the power on your Mack, don't expect to get replacement parts form Mack because they now make parts just to meet their stock specification.

Edited March 19, 2008 by mackcl96

[roadusercharges]

you people that try and hot rod your engines in this modern era, should get a laptop and a c-15 cat, and a computers for dummies book.

you only get away with a few mods before all hell brakes loose and your bank account is zero, let alone your rig is not able to earn an income.

but there will allways be boy racers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nigel

[mackcl96]

well its too bad you feel that way.I guess your mom or wife wont let you have a hot rod. why do I want a c-15 with my mack history. I outpull stock 550cats now and get 6.5 mpg

[rw613]

well its too bad you feel that way.I guess your mom or wife wont let you have a hot rod. why do I want a c-15 with my mack history. I outpull stock 550cats now and get 6.5 mpg

antram diesel cah hook you up with your turbo and you can keep on skinnen cats ..thats the way we like it

[theakerstwo]

What I have here is 96 E7-454 (stock 380 to ground) no fun. It had an S-3 turbo from the factory in 1998 Mack said to go with an S-4 (5145AM).

Almost every year Mack said come down we have a hot new program to put in. Some even came from Hagerstown.

(This was the fun part)

Now with high flow inj., pump timing bump up, high flow del. Pump, etc. Now with all hot rod toys parts will fail early, so turbos only last 2 years. So in July of 05, Mack got rid of many of the older turbos (Service bulletin 214019).

So my replacement turbo is now 5173MX, which is much smaller, then the 5145AM.

Mack (HQ) said you can not use an(5173MX E-Tech turbo)it is only rated for 30 psi boost, stock 454 makes 34 psi boost, and Borg Warner said 31 psi tops.

Week later Mack said that 5173MX has been tested and will work so I put it on. Found out anything over 30 psi it would howl, the old turbo would produce 45 psi. This one 33 psi and screaming, hot pyro, hot water temp and poor fuel mileage.

Called Mack (HQ) they sent service rep to ride with me. To weeks later they tell me it would work if your truck were stock. So it’is your problem. My jaw hit the floor. Now I have $1300 paperweight in the garage and had to find a 5145M4, which is the same as my old one.

What this boils down to is, if you buy a used truck and is running good and don't know the history of it, or if you turn up the power on your Mack, don't expect to get replacement parts form Mack because they now make parts just to meet their stock specification.

Any engine manufactor will treat you same way. Look at it this way if you was a engine rebuilder and know what you are doing would you stand behind a engine that you sold to some one that you dont know that have jack up the HP?You would not be in business very long. Its easy for anyone to jack up the HP but dont exspect some one else to pay for your mistakes. If you dont understand whate makes a engine live then listen to some one that has been there and did it. How long do you think mack has been exspermenting with engines and turbos and now you read something that will hot rod your engine and now you want to try it but if it fauls let some one else pay for it. If you play you have to pay. Am i missing something in your post i mean was it like i read it?There is many products out there that will fool you ecm into doing something its not paided to do but cause some one has over size injectors for sale is for some one with deep pockets.

[Mackpro]

Forget messing with Mack, go to a real turbo shop and have them make you one up. We use United Fuel and Turbo in Birmingham Alabama.

[fjh]

Forget messing with Mack, go to a real turbo shop and have them make you one up. We use United Fuel and Turbo in Birmingham Alabama.

Amen!

31 psi out of a truck that old is hoggwash!We had (stock units) of that era cranking 40 psi! these wore all mack drivline and were allowed the XT data file at the time! Likly nowhere to be found now!

[cxn613]

antram diesel cah hook you up with your turbo and you can keep on skinnen cats ..thats the way we like it

I agree call ANTRIM DIESEL!!! in Greencastle Pa. They know macks and performance.

[Mackpro]

Amen!

31 psi out of a truck that old is hoggwash!We had (stock units) of that era cranking 40 psi! these wore all mack drivline and were allowed the XT data file at the time! Likly nowhere to be found now!

Not to get off subject, I drove a CHU with a 505 HP today and the boost was going past the 40psi guage, what a ride!

[Underdog]

I am glad this topic came up... As most of you know I lost my turbo a couple weeks ago. The old Schwitzer just gave up after one million miles. In its place I am totally not satisfied with the #5173AMX Borg Warner $2400.00 P.O.S. Mack sold me. Fuel mileage down, power down, and noises like I never heard before! I guess I will be calling Antrim.

Gregg

[Rob]

Few years ago I had Majestic Turbo in Waco, TX build me a turbocharger and a friend of his in Mclean, TX match the injectors/pump to the turbocharger map. The injection pump was tweaked , (I don't know what was done) but not totally rebuilt. The package performed very strongly together on a Dyno but I couldn't keep head gaskets in the engine. Each time the engine was boosted about 31-33 psi, it popped the head gasket between the #2, and #3 cylinders. Three times it done this. Although I was seeing 312 horsepower at the rear wheels, (calculated) at 1650-1750 rpm, (by the dash mounted tach) it was not reliable. This was for my 64 B61. I was wanting to see 300 reliable horsepower from this engine that is a 711.

I know the 711 does not have fire rings, nor is built heavy enough for modifications, but the gist of the story is that having a turbocharger built to your denoted specifications, then having the fuel delivery system matched to the induction system characteristics can yeild very desirable results, and live.

The system has to engineered to work together or it gets real expensive real quick. This truck makes just over 250 horsepower reliably but really likes to smoke with the stock turbocharger, and tweaked pump installed.

Rob

[other dog]

well its too bad you feel that way.I guess your mom or wife wont let you have a hot rod. why do I want a c-15 with my mack history. I outpull stock 550cats now and get 6.5 mpg

The truck I drive has a 550 Cat,and it's pretty much a pos in my opinion.It's too big for a paperweight but it would make a nice boat anchor.

[theakerstwo]

The truck I drive has a 550 Cat,and it's pretty much a pos in my opinion.It's too big for a paperweight but it would make a nice boat anchor.

I think the fuel mileage on all twin turbo cats was down. EPA is to blame.

[David]

Few years ago I had Majestic Turbo in Waco, TX build me a turbocharger and a friend of his in Mclean, TX match the injectors/pump to the turbocharger map. The injection pump was tweaked , (I don't know what was done) but not totally rebuilt. The package performed very strongly together on a Dyno but I couldn't keep head gaskets in the engine. Each time the engine was boosted about 31-33 psi, it popped the head gasket between the #2, and #3 cylinders. Three times it done this. Although I was seeing 312 horsepower at the rear wheels, (calculated) at 1650-1750 rpm, (by the dash mounted tach) it was not reliable. This was for my 64 B61. I was wanting to see 300 reliable horsepower from this engine that is a 711.

I know the 711 does not have fire rings, nor is built heavy enough for modifications, but the gist of the story is that having a turbocharger built to your denoted specifications, then having the fuel delivery system matched to the induction system characteristics can yeild very desirable results, and live.

The system has to engineered to work together or it gets real expensive real quick. This truck makes just over 250 horsepower reliably but really likes to smoke with the stock turbocharger, and tweaked pump installed.

Rob

It's hard to keep head gaskets in a 711 even if you remove the turbo.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Hot rod your "toys", but don't mess with the truck that you depend on for your livelyhood.

[Rob]

Hot rod your "toys", but don't mess with the truck that you depend on for your livelyhood.

Very good advice if not using time proven technology, or experimenting.

Rob

[mackcl96]

WELL HOLY THREAD RESURECTION THIS STORY IS 5 YEARS OLD

Try to make this short,,,,,,,,My first paying job was at Mack when I was 15 years old

I ate and drank and with many Mack suits over the years,,this was a friendship and bond that

has lasted until they retired(allot retired 9 years ago wounder why).

The power increase that are made to mine,,,WHERE DONE WITH MACKS BACKING AND SUPORT

In 2005 Volvo discontinued a shit load of turbos...Including the one Mack in 1998,

said would be the perfect combo. Their replacement is to small,,Hell Borg Warner told

me it wasn't going to work.......this is when,, it was finally beaten into my head that

the Mack I grew up with was gone...

[mackcl96]

antram diesel cah hook you up with your turbo and you can keep on skinnen cats ..thats the way we like it

I try to get my parts from Mack ,,,,,,but now I do a little research before I use what volvo says to use but thanks

Thought about Michigan Turbo,,but this one will produce 44psi so it will do for now.

[mackcl96]

Forget messing with Mack, go to a real turbo shop and have them make you one up. We use United Fuel and Turbo in Birmingham Alabama.

Thanks,,,,My Mack dealer is pushing me to try Michigan Turbo but this one is still pumping

[mackcl96]

Not to get off subject, I drove a CHU with a 505 HP today and the boost was going past the 40psi guage, what a ride!

Not to get off subject,,,,But we are having a conversation on gray Mack engines not red volvo

engines,,,,,,,

[mackcl96]

I am glad this topic came up... As most of you know I lost my turbo a couple weeks ago. The old Schwitzer just gave up after one million miles. In its place I am totally not satisfied with the #5173AMX Borg Warner $2400.00 P.O.S. Mack sold me. Fuel mileage down, power down, and noises like I never heard before! I guess I will be calling Antrim.

Gregg

Sorry to hear Gregg ....Volvo said that turbo would work (IT WAS MY FAULT IT DOSENT)

Now you speak of the same problems I had 5 years ago and your stock with 1.2 million mile

That turbo (exhaust side) is too small......way to much back pressure and your high milage valve seals are not going to put up with it.

This is a prime example why Mack owners are going to other truck brands.

[mackcl96]

Hot rod your "toys", but don't mess with the truck that you depend on for your livelyhood.

But this is my toy,,,,and these toys has put food on our table since I was 18 and in business

Got to blame Dad and his (West Coast) buddies,, That I grew up around that where horsepower nuts from the early 70's,,,,,(now there is some stories)

But thanks anyway,,,,, Driver

[mackcl96]

Very good advice if not using time proven technology, or experimenting.

Rob

Time proven technology ,,,,,,,,,,old Turbo by Mack....Yes

Experimenting,,,,,,,,,,that is volvo parts line today (give them this it should work)

[Rob]

I certainly agree. When I had the turbocharger built the operating parameter questions asked were pretty simple; bore, stroke, diesel, 1000ft. pounds torque at 1400rpm, They sized the A/R to the desired parameters as directed. A computer map was generated and the exhaust section of the turbocharger figured at a .93A/R. On a flow bench this needed altered a little to acheive the correct "zone" to keep the exhaust pulses from saturation which can break turbine fins. After satisfying the parameters for the turbocharger operation, the fuel system and timing was addressed. I didn't have anything to do with this so don't know what was done. I followed instructions installing the parts, and chained her to the dyno.

What I was wanting to do is find the weakest link of a very common engine series people have in B models, and gain appreciable output power increase using this existing platform. My 711 is sound and I was not looking to "hot rod" the truck as it really is junk, except the engine and trans. As mentioned earlier my target of 300 reliable horsepower was never fully realized, but the engine makes a consistant 250 at the wheels the way it sets. This in itself is about 50 horsepower more than original design criteria for the engine. I'm happy with it as is. If I were to cut the heads for fire rings, I'm quite certain I could acheive the 300 mark and it would hold together fine. I don't have piston coolers so wouldn't want to push it really hard cause once broke, it would be fatal.

I kinda put the project on the back burner like so many others to maybe pick up again, someday.

Rob

[mackcl96]

I certainly agree. When I had the turbocharger built the operating parameter questions asked were pretty simple; bore, stroke, diesel, 1000ft. pounds torque at 1400rpm, They sized the A/R to the desired parameters as directed. A computer map was generated and the exhaust section of the turbocharger figured at a .93A/R. On a flow bench this needed altered a little to acheive the correct "zone" to keep the exhaust pulses from saturation which can break turbine fins. After satisfying the parameters for the turbocharger operation, the fuel system and timing was addressed. I didn't have anything to do with this so don't know what was done. I followed instructions installing the parts, and chained her to the dyno.

What I was wanting to do is find the weakest link of a very common engine series people have in B models, and gain appreciable output power increase using this existing platform. My 711 is sound and I was not looking to "hot rod" the truck as it really is junk, except the engine and trans. As mentioned earlier my target of 300 reliable horsepower was never fully realized, but the engine makes a consistant 250 at the wheels the way it sets. This in itself is about 50 horsepower more than original design criteria for the engine. I'm happy with it as is. If I were to cut the heads for fire rings, I'm quite certain I could acheive the 300 mark and it would hold together fine. I don't have piston coolers so wouldn't want to push it really hard cause once broke, it would be fatal.

I kinda put the project on the back burner like so many others to maybe pick up again, someday.

Rob

I would like to have the turbo built.

I like my local Mack and Bosch parts suppliers, since I can get them even on Sunday

I would like to get the honed and cut injectors again that I had,,,Got to thank them Dodge Cummins

boys for their time tinkering with different tip cuts with laser honing,,,,worked good but the tips

ended up cracking,, so super flows went back in

Now my pump guy wants to try E9 tips for a different spray angle