Need help. How to install 14" two disc clutch?

[Vladislav]

I had in issue assembling a clutch on Cruiseliner. When i came to the place the truck was parked the tranny was off laying on a ground below the truck and the clutch parts stored separately. Both discs were destroyed so i keept a pair of similar good used ones from home. Found out the pressure plate, flywheel and intermediate plate rusty so had to clean the parts and grease where they should be.

Than the following steps were done: put the flywheel on the crank end. On the tranny's spigot I hanged a clutch brake, pressure plate (with though out bearing grease nipple up), one disk, intermediate plate, than second disc. Managed the pulling yoke to get behind the bearing shoulders. Lifted the tranny, put on the engine, pulled by a cargo strap to the flywheel housing, attached mounting bolts all over it Than dove below, put bolts into the pressure plate holes through the botton opening and evenly tightened them up while turning the flywheel. Ended up having the pressure plate not completely on the flywheel housing, figured the intermediate plate didn't correspond its ditched with flywheel inner pins. So had to turn the tranny bellhousing bolts slightly loose, put some drift or a screwdriver against the edge of the intermediate plate, turned the crank a bit and heard "kling". After that the pressure plate got completely down to the flywheel so I could tight its bolts. Retightened the tranny to the engine, also could slick my phone into the rear opening and made a couple of photos where the plate ditches seemed corresponding with the pins. All in all looked Ok but when I tried to set the clutch pulling cable I found out no pedal travel. You pressed the pedal but it was like a stone. At the moment I hadn't time anymore so loaded the truck by crane and transported home. Now I'm going to figure out the matters and hope to fix the issue. So all possible tips and suggestions are strongly appreciated.

Vlad

[Mark T]

It's possible the discs are backwards. they only work one way, but will go together backwards 

[Vladislav]

Thanks for the idea. When I investigated the discs, they had scripts printed, such as flywheel side and pressure plate side. I followed those directions as long as i remember. But currently have to get to some doubts on the correctness indeed. Never installed a two disc setup before. And only my 2nd time assembling the pulling type clutch at all.

[mrsmackpaul]

Did you adjust the clutch at all

With the discs out of something else and the pressure plate from the truck with a worn out clutch it may well be a long way out of adjustment  and already adjusted as if fully pressed 

 

Paul

[Vladislav]

No, I didn't get that far along the job to achive ajustment

Layed on a (wet and cold) ground under the truck today and got a look into the bottom inspection opening. What I saw was the thoughout bearing pulled off the pressure plate all its way down to against the clutch brake. There's a bumper plate at the front of the tranny housing suspended by 4 coil springs and it looked like the bearing already pressed the brake disk to it. And it was not forced rearwards by the yoke, more looked like something behind the pressure plate (inside the clutch pack) pressed the bearing out.

Currently I'm on a scale between pulling off the tranny and rest the truck as it is till the next spring. It's parked not the way I like but the temp is a few degrees above the freezing point with light rains.

[mrsmackpaul]

I would try adjusting the clutch by the bolt in the pressure plate to bring the throw out bearing back towards the motor end and off the clutch brake until the measurement is 3/4 of a inch between the throw out bearing and the clutch brake 

 

I think you will find it will work then 

 

Paul 

 

[Mark T]

You need to find yourself an old 2 inch input shaft that's in good shape to use for lining up those clutches.  It's much easier than using the transmission.  I still think a disc could be backwards.  I'd feel really bad if you took it apart again only to find you had them in correct though.

[Mark T]

I also kinda wonder why the levers on the pressure plate seem to have a circular mark scratched into them.....hmmm

[Truck Shop]

This covers 14" and 15" clutches.

 

https://www.daytonparts.com/dpweb/App_11/Dist_site/literature/225/DP_Clutch_TS_Guide_print.pdf

[fjh]

So here's  the procedure ! First get the clutch bake set with the lever adjustments on the OUTSIDE of the trans ! Get the clutch brake set so it operates 1/2 inch before the pedal hits the floor! now go to the winder on the clutch housing wind the inner ring( clockwise to bring the bearing closer counter clock wise to widen the gap) till you achieve 9/16 - 1/2 space between the clutch brake And the throw out bearing !  When your done confirm the clutch brake is still operating! You should now have approx inch and one half free pedal at the pedal end ! Note the cruise liner had issues with the cable mount on the floor ,make sure the floor is not flexing when your stepping on the clutch!

[Vladislav]

On 11/4/2020 at 10:58 PM, mrsmackpaul said:

I would try adjusting the clutch by the bolt in the pressure plate to bring the throw out bearing back towards the motor end and off the clutch brake until the measurement is 3/4 of a inch between the throw out bearing and the clutch brake 

 

I think you will find it will work then 

 

Paul 

 

Hmm.. Pretty interesting suggestion. Sure makes sence. I just can't belive the clutch could be off the adjustment that much to make the bearing almost against the brake disc.

Another point I still can't understand what particulary to do for the adjustment. Should I turn loose that big bolt (or nut?) at the pressure plate and than try to turn the part the bolt is in? Is that a big still ring inside the clutch or anything else? Does it usually turn free or supposed to get stuck by age? Just never did it before and never investigated the design.

[Vladislav]

21 hours ago, Mark T said:

You need to find yourself an old 2 inch input shaft that's in good shape to use for lining up those clutches.  It's much easier than using the transmission.  I still think a disc could be backwards.  I'd feel really bad if you took it apart again only to find you had them in correct though.

I'm going to take apart one of T2090 trannies to restore it for my R-model. So expexting to have one input shaft laying on a shelf. It seemed more difficult to me to install transmission with the clutch on the flywheel since more travel is required. But reading the literature I figured it's easier to fit a tranny with 15.5" clutch than a 14" setup since the intermediate plate gets its pins into the pressure plate on 15.5" and you don't need to correspond the notches and pins at the stationary flywheel. So having right equipment to fit a tranny seems more reasonable to first assemble 14" clutch onto flywheel indeed.

The traces on the pressure plate were made by collapsed friction discs. Those were the original matter of the issue and actually the reason the truck was sold and found place at my yard It looked like the pressure plate survived but now I'm not almost sure on that. The discs position bothers me either no doubt. I well remember I checked the scripts on them and gave parts to my helper step by step while he put them in place. So all should be fitted right. But you have to doubt on every thing during investigation.

[Vladislav]

20 hours ago, Truck Shop said:

This covers 14" and 15" clutches.

 

https://www.daytonparts.com/dpweb/App_11/Dist_site/literature/225/DP_Clutch_TS_Guide_print.pdf

Thanks for the link. Read the most of the content but as I noted above still can't figure what and particulary how to tinker in the pressure plate to set my clutch.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

[Vladislav]

6 hours ago, fjh said:

So here's  the procedure ! First get the clutch bake set with the lever adjustments on the OUTSIDE of the trans ! Get the clutch brake set so it operates 1/2 inch before the pedal hits the floor! now go to the winder on the clutch housing wind the inner ring( clockwise to bring the bearing closer counter clock wise to widen the gap) till you achieve 9/16 - 1/2 space between the clutch brake And the throw out bearing !  When your done confirm the clutch brake is still operating! You should now have approx inch and one half free pedal at the pedal end ! Note the cruise liner had issues with the cable mount on the floor ,make sure the floor is not flexing when your stepping on the clutch!

Thanks, got the sequence. Just never wound the winder. The particular Cruiseliner kept its stock cable until I stepped onto the clutch pedal for the first time. And broke its last two threads when I did that. So I bought 3 meters of common steel rope with a couple of clamps and made a "new" one. The floor still conteins a sleeve the cable goes through. But looks like it doesn't affect its operation by any mean.

[Vladislav]

12 minutes ago, doubleclutchinweasel said:

Ok, I see. I turn off the two bolts at the ends and remove the center one, right? But what to wind or spin or turn after that?

[Mark T]

That clutch is shot.  The pressure plate may even be shot as well ( like already adjusted to it's limit )  I once helped a guy who replaced a clutch cable in one of those and installed it backwards. The original Mack one goes farther from one direction than from the other. As far as the clutch in the truck, the space between the bearing and the clutch brake  should be around a half inch and not much more. this is done by turning the adjustment on the pressure plate and to do that requires holding the clutch disengaged so it will turn.  Be aware the more it's adjusted (turned) the less holding force the clutch will have.  Looks like maybe time to see about finding a different clutch assembly 

[h67st]

5 hours ago, Vladislav said:

Ok, I see. I turn off the two bolts at the ends and remove the center one, right? But what to wind or spin or turn after that?

No, remove the two end bolts and the metal strap, then turn the center bolt to adjust the pressure plate.

[Vladislav]

5 hours ago, h67st said:

No, remove the two end bolts and the metal strap, then turn the center bolt to adjust the pressure plate.

Wow, thanks. Sounds much easier than I expected. Will make a try.

[mrsmackpaul]

Hang on a  minute everyone is getting a tad excited here 

 

I'm pretty sure your clutch is slighty different than the ones in double clutching picture 

 

No need to undo the bolts, just put pressure on the head of the bolt and you will find the bolt is spring loaded and will push in

While holding it in turn it (at a guess anti clock wise) and once in position release 

Sort of rock it left and right to make sure it is locked in again

 

Im pretty sure there is no need to remove any bolts on this clutch 

 

Good luck

 

Paul

Edited November 6, 2020 by mrsmackpaul

[doubleclutchinweasel]

I'm just repeating what the instructions, which truck shop posted, said.

 

On my Spicer, you had to remove the lock plate, too.

 

Whatever...

[h67st]

9 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Hang on a  minute everyone is getting a tad excited here

I'm pretty sure your clutch is slighty different than the ones in double clutching picture 

No need to undo the bolts, just put pressure on the head of the bolt and you will find the bolt is spring loaded and will push in

While holding it in turn it (at a guess anti clock wise) and once in position release 

Sort of rock it left and right to make sure it is locked in again

Im pretty sure there is no need to remove any bolts on this clutch 

Good luck        Paul

I believe youse correct...I was looking at the shiny new pressure plate. Vlad's plate looks like it has the spring loaded adjuster bolt.

[Vladislav]

Sounds very promising. I too hope turning of that wonder bolt will get me closer to the solution of my clutch issue.

It's quite rainy the last few days. Would like to wait a bit for a better moment to sunbath under the truck.

Once again, thanks to everyone for the support. I will update the post as soon as I get any news.

[Vladislav]

21 hours ago, Mark T said:

That clutch is shot.  The pressure plate may even be shot as well ( like already adjusted to it's limit )  I once helped a guy who replaced a clutch cable in one of those and installed it backwards. The original Mack one goes farther from one direction than from the other. As far as the clutch in the truck, the space between the bearing and the clutch brake  should be around a half inch and not much more. this is done by turning the adjustment on the pressure plate and to do that requires holding the clutch disengaged so it will turn.  Be aware the more it's adjusted (turned) the less holding force the clutch will have.  Looks like maybe time to see about finding a different clutch assembly 

Two points got my attention. First I'm currently not able to disengage the clutch since the bearing has no travel or about no travel. Second I'm not sure I'd be able to find a different clutch assembly locally soon enough. Of what I learned something similar was used in 9400 and 9800 IH trucks which are common overhere and many parts are usually stocked for them.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

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