Gunk in crankcase filter.

[Kwdriver84]

Hey guys, have a 05 Mack ch600 asset 427 engine. I recently notice gunk coming out the crankcase pipe so I went ahead and open the filter and found all this gunk. I also had the water pump replace a few days ago because it was leaking and I was using up antifreeze before that. Here’s some pics of what I found. Any idea what’s causing this gunk? Thanks 

 

[fjh]

Likely antifreeze 

[Joey Mack]

Hey there, That looks like coolant mixed with the oil. If you can let the truck sit for a day or 2, loosen the oil drain plug and see if water comes out first. no need to pull the plug, just get it very loose, coolant will run out around the threads... you can also drain the oil and drop the pan, pressure test the "full" cooling system to 20psi, and watch the bottom of the liners for coolant dripping.... good luck, I hope I'm wrong... Jojo...

[mrgumby]

Should check egr cooler also

[Kwdriver84]

I’ll go ahead and try that @Joey Mack would the egr cooler cause that also? @mrgumby?

[Joey Mack]

The EGR cooler just has coolant flowing through it to cool exhaust gasses.  Keep in mind, oil pressure is higher than coolant pressure,  you have a plate type oil cooler on the left side. I have seen these fail, oil usually gets in the coolant.  What I have seen many times, was liners leaking into the crankcase.   Of course, I havent seen it all.....   For the cost of an oil change and 2+ hours of youre time, you can do what I suggested... If theres no liner leaks, smile BIG and check other places... Jojo

[Kwdriver84]

@Joey Mack yeah the liners might be what’s causing me to loose coolant. I’m going to go ahead and do that tomorrow to see for sure. Just in case that is the issue what’s the average repair cost? 

[fjh]

10 to 20 grand depending on your shop ! Don't drive it much longer! leave the rad cap loose if your going drive it!

[Joey Mack]

I am a Mobile Mack mechanic, I built an E-7 mechanical 3 months ago. I used PAI parts, RE-man heads (not from Mack) and a new radiator, (also not from Mack), new water pump, PAI, air compressor, i re-used the 6 month old turbo ,per customer request,,,,  $10,500.00. He called me sunday to say all is good, Pulled his rubber tire backhoe loader 70 miles to a job site... says it cranks and runs good, no issues.... anyway my point is you can re-build it at a reasonable cost... the dealers here would charge $30,000.00 if they even have someone who knows how..

[Joey Mack]

If the liners arent leaking, you can check the air compressor,,, It may be a longshot... Mabey another "poster" here as another idea.... Good luck, Jojo

[Kwdriver84]

@Joey Mack I appreciate your help/info very helpful. Thanks. 🤙

[Joey Mack]

Im in Salisbury, am I close to you?? I understand if you dont want to say... I just thought if you were close i could come by and help take a look.. Jojo

[880joe]

Joey Mack what's your labor rate and do you have the tools to cut the block on the etech

[Kwdriver84]

@Joey Mack I live in Wallace NC I believe your over 3 hrs away from me. 

[fjh]

11 minutes ago, 880joe said:

Joey Mack what's your labor rate and do you have the tools to cut the block on the etech

Good question 880joe  Also could be an oil cooler issue as well however not quite as likley as a liner leak!

[Joey Mack]

I do not have a counterbore cutter, YET... In my area there are a few shops that will come out to cut shelves if I need that service.... My rate is $60/hr. from the time i leave my house, to the time I get back.. I try to stay within 30 miles away from jobs. 

[880joe]

Sure wish you were 900 miles closer I've offered mechanics 100 an hour and still can't get them to work

[Joey Mack]

I understand... No one wants to do this WORK anymore.. Young;ins are told they can fix them with a laptop at a starting wage of $22/hr...  Forget getting greasy,, I tried going back  to a Mack dealer to work up into management,  I was told that my 20+ years as a Mack mechanic, and I have 5+ years O.T.R. and construction , driving late 70"s Mack RD's and DM's.... was not what they were looking for.. They need a computer person, who can talk to customers... Anyway, this kind of thinking is part of the reason why there are less new mechanics... I have also had people hang up on me when I tell them my Price.... ok, I'm done now..... Merry Christmas.. Jojo

[Vmac3]

I have also seen the square plugs on top of the cylinder heads leaks coolant as well. For the time it takes pull  the rocker covers off and pressure test the cooling system to about 20 psi. Also if you have the oil pan off check to see if coolant is coming out from the oil pump pick-up. Should be an indication of a bad oil cooler. Hope its nothing major.

[FBGNO]

My 98 RD was doing exactly the same thing. I suspected it might be a liner. When I tore it apart it ended up being 2 of the liner seals were hard and crusty like bak o lite.

[Kwdriver84]

@Joey Mack well I took it to a mechanic today took the oil pan off and saw leaking on number 5,6 and 2 liner seals according to him. He said once he open it up he can see if I’m going to need sleeves and liners. I might as well just buy an in frame kit right? 

[Joey Mack]

yes..... As far as inspecting it with idea of re-using the liners, in rare cases in my experience you can do that. However, why take the chance? Hopefully when he pulls the liners, the counter bore shelf will be good. if not, just get them cut.. I have always built these engines with Mack parts, but 4 months ago i built a 1990 E-7 with P.A.I. engine kit and heads.. so far the truck is running goo, I talk to my customer often to keep up on it.. I'm sure a few others will chime in on this, there are a lot of smart people here.. "F" from canada, and vmac3.... They may offer some advice too.. Jojo   Good luck, let me know how it goes..

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[Vmac3]

Yup, I agree with Jojo. I would not take the chance. With EGR engines the engine oil is very abrasive because of soot loading. Lots of good aftermarket parts out there. Just be sure your tech keeps everything clean when assembling the engine and the tolerances are checked. You should be good to go.

[Joey Mack]

I always measure my shelf depth, I keep an old liner that i trimmed. i measure each time i use it, write down my measurements. shelf depth usually falls around 4".03...   on an uncut counter bore.... i take that measurement along with the new liner measurement. around 4".10... anyway,... when I set a liner i shoot for .028" protrusion.   I always get my liners within .002"... mack spec is .023-.029... Im telling you this because I hope who is doing the build understands this...  Vmac3... please chime in... I have seen too many engine builds go bad because the "tech" said he could do it..

[Vmac3]

There is no screwing around at this point.

I hope your tech has enough experience, because this can go sideways in a real hurry. Don't rush the job, make sure the job is done with cleanliness in mind. Also don't forget to check the rod and main bearings, because coolant contaminated the crankcase. The rods and main journals need to be checked for pitting and excessive wear. Don't have the tech replace anything until the rods and mains have been measured. 

After the liners are pulled, block deck cleaned and the block deck is checked for straightness, make sure there are no pits in the counter bore. Any erosion on the counter bore will need to be cut. I measure the counter bore with a depth micrometre and measure in 4 different spots to check the condition of the counter bore. If the counter bore is to be cut, make sure the counter bore cutter has a good cutting bit otherwise the shelf of the counter bore will have waves and it will eventually leak when put back into service.

There is no need to rush this. If you take too much off at once you will ruin the shelf. I can't explain how critical this procedure is. Max depth is 4.040". If you have some pitting that can"t be removed, according to Mack it is acceptable as long as there is no direct path to the crankcase. Man oh man have I seen a lot of crappy in-frames where care was not taken. 

Don't use gobs of silicone. About a 3-4mm bead is all that is needed. The largest shim is installed followed by the thinner. Try and have your tech cut the counter-bore as little as possible but making sure the shelf is in good shape. You want the height of the sleeves as close as possible, this will ensure a good seal of the fire rings. Have some paper towel in the bore, to catch the filings when the counter bore is being cut. After cutting the counter bore remeasure it using a micrometre. Make sure everything is spotless. Max sleeve height is .029". Try and get the liner height to the upper end of the spec. When the heads go on you can bet the liners will go down another .001-.002". If the tech is on the low side, then, well, it all goes to sh#t. 

This is a job where extreme care needs to be taken, a lot of experience on the tech is needed. There are so many things that I did not point out, its in your techs hands. Like I said there is no screwing around. 

V