Eaton 18-SPD vs. Mack T318 & 2180

[kevgibbs]

I have never ran an Eaton 18-Spd and have always wondered how they perform compared to the Mack 18-Spds. Are their designs similar? Which ones last longer? Is one more heavy duty over the other? Which one do you like better? 

Also, could someone explain how the T318 and 2180 transmissions differ? 

[Joey Mack]

Both trannys are good.  I'm always partial to the Mack, very strong... Keep the air supply to the Eaton shuttle valve and filter regulator clean, to lengthen synchro life..  The 300 series Mack has a few small differences from the 200 series. One is the sliding clutches are finer splined, I believe this helped smooth out gear selection, since macks tend to be a challange early on for Eaton drivers.. No biggie... AS always, good air system maintainance and clean oil, oh yeah.... and No slip seating,,,, and either trans will do a great job... I look forward to seeing other opinions.. Jojo

[doubleclutchinweasel]

This topic comes up on here all the time.  The opinions vary from individual to individual.

About the only thing that is generally agreed on is that the Eaton-Fullers are cheaper to repair.

There are a LOT more Fullers out there than Macks.  Both work.  Like anything else, some people have better luck with one than the other.

Here's one of many discussions...

 

[fjh]

1 hour ago, doubleclutchinweasel said:

This topic comes up on here all the time.  The opinions vary from individual to individual.

About the only thing that is generally agreed on is that the Eaton-Fullers are cheaper to repair.

There are a LOT more Fullers out there than Macks.  Both work.  Like anything else, some people have better luck with one than the other.

Here's one of many discussions...

About the only thing that is generally agreed on is that the Eaton-Fullers are cheaper to repair.

There are a LOT more Fullers out there than Macks.  Both work.  Like anything else, some people have better luck with one than the other.

 

The above statement is so True!

I am still working at a Mack dealer and over the last 30 /40  years I have had and seen the 18 speed Mack trans rear section off more than a few times! That being said It is something most shops aren't set up to do so we get to see the short comings more often! But viewing it from the current situation ! The Volvo people Are Trying Real Hard to Bury the Past They are making it Virtually impossible to repair the older Mack stuff They want you to By a New Mack Truck ! With All Volvo Parts! older Parts May be available But Priced out of Reach!  The fuller as mentioned Is a Universal Trans Time Tested ! Superior in some ways because of its long run and popularity ! 

[doubleclutchinweasel]

1 hour ago, fjh said:

The above statement is so True!

I am still working at a Mack dealer and over the last 30 /40  years I have had and seen the 18 speed Mack trans rear section off more than a few times! That being said It is something most shops aren't set up to do so we get to see the short comings more often! But viewing it from the current situation ! The Volvo people Are Trying Real Hard to Bury the Past They are making it Virtually impossible to repair the older Mack stuff They want you to By a New Mack Truck ! With All Volvo Parts! older Parts May be available But Priced out of Reach!  The fuller as mentioned Is a Universal Trans Time Tested ! Superior in some ways because of its long run and popularity ! 

That is an interesting perspective.

I am a Mack guy.  But, for my money, it's hard to beat an Eaton-Fuller RoadRanger transmission.

[Joey Mack]

you nailed it "F"...

[fjh]

10 minutes ago, doubleclutchinweasel said:

That is an interesting perspective.

I am a Mack guy.  But, for my money, it's hard to beat an Eaton-Fuller RoadRanger transmission.

Yup I agree! I too used to be a Mack guy ,Still am unfortunately in Body and work only now ! The spirit left  in 2002 ! How ever I wouldn't be still working if it weren't for the current rescheme! That's the only upside!  The rest is A downer! The industry in general is a disappointment! Every manufacture for the most part is on the same Path! Quality is not on the agenda! 

[Joey Mack]

So true.. I only gave 10 years in the dealership. I knew quality was not job 1 for a while, but when my Dealership wouldnt entertain promoting me with a combined total of 20 years at the time on Macks,. I even made "Tech of the month" 7 out of 11 months and also made "Tech of the year" for 2018, because of the quality and efficiency of my work.  instead they hired a guy who had a car repair garage, and never even drove a truck, forget working on one... I knew right away, I just needed to concentrate on doing it for myself and working on older trucks. I am currently building a 3 cyl. john deere engine in my shop and my customer is bringing me 2 more today. so I am here, chatting with you guys while I wait for them to arrive.. Go Bulldog!  Jojo

[Vmac3]

The Mack trans as everyone knows is a triple countershaft design. This design splits the torque in 3 ways versus a twin countershaft in two. The Mack trans is more versatile for PTO configurations and generally a more tougher design. But if that auxiliary section has to come off for repair, it does get real pricey compared to the eaton. So whatever floats your boat is what it comes down.

V

[theakerstwo]

I run a mack 18 speed and i wish it was a eaton because the eaton shifts better and is cheaper to work on.

[fjh]

16 hours ago, Vmac3 said:

The Mack trans as everyone knows is a triple countershaft design. This design splits the torque in 3 ways versus a twin countershaft in two. The Mack trans is more versatile for PTO configurations and generally a more tougher design. But if that auxiliary section has to come off for repair, it does get real pricey compared to the eaton. So whatever floats your boat is what it comes down.

V

Yup Get in the canoe !  Cause Mother Volvo Will have Brain Washed the Masses, that's what you need! Soon All that will be available is I shift /  M drive . Oh we don't offer Manual trans any more!! If we don't got it you don't need it! 

A truck that runs you and not the other way around! 🙄

[Joey Mack]

So sad!!!!    

[John3406]

I have both. Bot have been good but i can tell you the eaton is cheaper to fix

[doubleclutchinweasel]

I am a design and manufacturing engineer, so I tend to look at mechanisms in a slightly different (warped?) way.

The twin-countershaft design of the Eaton-Fuller is actually a super good design.  The load balances very naturally between those 2 shafts.  These were some of the first high-torque capacity transmissions to be developed.  And, only having 1 stick was far easier to master than 2.

I figure Mack HAD to come up with something to compete with the Fullers on torque capacity.  And the original Maxitorque was the result.  They had this new Maxi engine, and the old Mack boxes were simply not up to the task of handling the torque.  Sure, they could have used Fuller boxes, but...you know!  I mean, a RoadRanger behind a 237 Maxidyne was and still is a really nice setup.

The Mack triple-countershaft design, if I had to speculate, was probably done just to avoid the patents on the Fullers, or to "one-up" them.  If 2 are good, 3 must be better...right?

Like I said, I figure Mack HAD to come up with something to compete with the Fullers.  And the Maxitorque was the result.  The later 13- and 18-speed Mack boxes are a natural evolution of those old original Maxi boxes.  Once emission regulations effectively killed off the original "high torque rise" Maxidyne engines, those 5- and 6-speed boxes were kinda short on gears again!  So, they took the triple-countershaft design, added the rear section (kinda like Fuller did), and voila!  Mack versions of the Fullers!

The only "real" advantage I can see for 1 over the other is that the Eaton-Fuller boxes are cheaper to maintain/repair, which, ultimately, might make them more cost-effective (profitable?) to operate.  But, that's about it.  Like some have said, the gear ratios in the Mack box might suit your operation better.  Or, the Eaton might.  Depends.

I don't think I would arbitrarily remove brand A to put in brand B unless there was some compelling reason.  If I had a busted box, and had the other one on-hand, maybe it makes sense.  I knew one guy who swapped all his Mack boxes over to RRs just so ALL his trucks would have the same exact box in them.  He did it with the clutches, too.  Made sense for him.

But, if I was driving a Mack box, and was happy with it...damned if I'd pull it out just for the heck of it.  On the other hand, if it was causing me grief, out she'd come.

Dang!  I guess I'm not all that brand-loyal after all!  Sorry for the length.  Was having a crummy day, and this helped take my mind of of it!

Weasel out...

Edited March 4, 2021 by doubleclutchinweasel

[Truck Shop]

One thing that hasn't been addressed-Eaton for many years used parts forged in the UK and Canada as well as the U.S.. But like so many companies they moved into gears, bearing and other related parts stamped else where. I spent years rebuilding Eaton gear boxes, the longevity on gear life isn't what it was 20 years ago. But with that said if you are rebuilding lets say a RTLO18913A the replacement parts and numbers are for a RTLO16913A. So basically you end up with a half and half transmission on torque rating. The tempering/hard surface process for the 18913a gears is more expensive and Eaton just replaces with 16913A parts. Sad but true.  

 

[Joey Mack]

Good points.. and info..

[Rob]

I've ordered a lot of parts through various suppliers for Fuller transmissions and most have been stamped Korea. Most, not all as some of the roller bearings have been China., and some United States.

[Vmac3]

The mother ship has been pushing their narrative since they came into the picture for obvious and not so obvious reasons. I came into the picture when Vmac2 was ending and the Etech was in full swing. These trucks were quite simple and very affordable to repair compared to what we have going on today. Those old school drivers where more in tune to their vehicles and they were able to do repairs on their vehicles which helped to decrease the cost of ownership. Then some would argue, well just get extended warranty then you should be all set, well who will pay for done time?? I have never seen so many failures with transmissions, electrical and electronic crap before. I know that these new automated transmissions are really nice to operate, it replaces the drivers input, possibly is safer, but man oh man they are falling apart left right and center. Beware, if you are out of warranty this is going to cost you big time. 

[Hayseed]

3 hours ago, Rob said:

I've ordered a lot of parts through various suppliers for Fuller transmissions and most have been stamped Korea. Most, not all as some of the roller bearings have been China., and some United States.

The Place Where i get My Roadranger parts from sells Italian Eurocambi Aftermarket parts & they tell Me they have less warranty claims than the genuine parts. Though They will only sell genuine Syncro assemblies..

 

https://www.euroricambigroup.com/en

[fjh]

1 hour ago, Vmac3 said:

The mother ship has been pushing their narrative since they came into the picture for obvious and not so obvious reasons. I came into the picture when Vmac2 was ending and the Etech was in full swing. These trucks were quite simple and very affordable to repair compared to what we have going on today. Those old school drivers where more in tune to their vehicles and they were able to do repairs on their vehicles which helped to decrease the cost of ownership. Then some would argue, well just get extended warranty then you should be all set, well who will pay for done time?? I have never seen so many failures with transmissions, electrical and electronic crap before. I know that these new automated transmissions are really nice to operate, it replaces the drivers input, possibly is safer, but man oh man they are falling apart left right and center. Beware, if you are out of warranty this is going to cost you big time. 

Don't think your allowed to like things twice or three times here ! However the above statement is Soooo true! The average clutch {job here}  for the I shift M drive is By the time the dust settles close to ten grand flywheel clutch actuator s and rigging all should be replaced or it could screw you over down the road ! To top it off they program the trans to start off normally in 4th gear this tends to wear the clutch out even faster depending on the trucks  job ! Just a note to anyone buying these do your self a favor and have your dealer program the trans to start out in a lower gear It can be done the option is there just got to do it! Clutches ARE NOT PART OF WARRANTY after a year or so, also warranty DOES NOT PAY FOR DOWN TIME! So if your temped to buy an auto trans be sure to buy extended warranty! As with ALL Manufacturers   you should anyway as the rest of the truck is susceptible to emission issues anyway ! And quite honestly Big V / Mack ain't the only Guilty party here  You can Bet Everybody has the same Agenda! 

[Vmac3]

22 hours ago, fjh said:

Don't think your allowed to like things twice or three times here ! However the above statement is Soooo true! The average clutch {job here}  for the I shift M drive is By the time the dust settles close to ten grand flywheel clutch actuator s and rigging all should be replaced or it could screw you over down the road ! To top it off they program the trans to start off normally in 4th gear this tends to wear the clutch out even faster depending on the trucks  job ! Just a note to anyone buying these do your self a favor and have your dealer program the trans to start out in a lower gear It can be done the option is there just got to do it! Clutches ARE NOT PART OF WARRANTY after a year or so, also warranty DOES NOT PAY FOR DOWN TIME! So if your temped to buy an auto trans be sure to buy extended warranty! As with ALL Manufacturers   you should anyway as the rest of the truck is susceptible to emission issues anyway ! And quite honestly Big V / Mack ain't the only Guilty party here  You can Bet Everybody has the same Agenda! 

Absolutely true. If the price of parts don't get you, the downtime will.

V

[Polarhound]

On 3/5/2021 at 8:40 AM, fjh said:

he average clutch {job here}  for the I shift M drive is By the time the dust settles close to ten grand flywheel clutch actuator s and rigging all should be replaced

Actuator, yes.  Flywheel, no.  The flywheel can be turned.  If it's not out of spec, it can be cleaned up just fine.

If you're paying $10k for a clutch job, you're getting robbed.  A clutch and reman actuator are ~$2000 combined.  Even with using new hardware for the clutch and flywheel (which you should be, not worth saving a couple dollars by reusing the hardware), that's still only ~$100 more in parts.  Can't think of any reason why you are paying the equivalent of 58 hours labor just to have your clutch done...

 

[fjh]

27 minutes ago, Polarhound said:

Actuator, yes.  Flywheel, no.  The flywheel can be turned.  If it's not out of spec, it can be cleaned up just fine.

If you're paying $10k for a clutch job, you're getting robbed.  A clutch and reman actuator are ~$2000 combined.  Even with using new hardware for the clutch and flywheel (which you should be, not worth saving a couple dollars by reusing the hardware), that's still only ~$100 more in parts.  Can't think of any reason why you are paying the equivalent of 58 hours labor just to have your clutch done...

 

 

(If you're paying $10k for a clutch job, you're getting robbed ! )

THATS THE POINT!

Flywheel grind ! If someone  walks in off the street to have a clutch replaced and you have no idea how many times the clutch has been done you replace the flywheel for your own safety then you can Provide the  whole job with a solid warranty with out worrying about a backfire !As for using a recon actuator Our luck with most ReMack Parts is not the best! Not the most quality stuff in my mind  I would just rather start over! start from scratch !

And not have to do it twice!

 

Just an opinion