63 B61 Clutch pedal shaft bearings

[HugeHugh]

Anybody know the part number for the two needle bearings that support the clutch pedal shaft on a B61?  The clutch pedal shaft sits in the driver side springhanger.  The bore in the spring hander is 1.5" and the clutch pedal shaft is 1.25" in diameter.  The bearing looks to be about 1" in width.  The needles are about .900" in length.  Anybody replaced these bearings or fixed a situation where the bearings are gone?  The clutch pedal end bearing shell had worn through one side, so it came out with a screwdriver.  The clutch end of the springhanger is where I pulled out the needles in the photo.  The inner bearing shell is gone but the outer shell is stuck in the bore but good.  Thanks.

 

I searched by the sizes I reported and vxb.com has a SCE2020 that is 1.25 x 1.5 x 1.25 that might work.  

Edited April 25, 2021 by HugeHugh
Provide an answer to my question for feedback

[mackaholic]

Not sure if they are identical but I've replaced the bearings on an LTL that look very similar. No inner race on those needle bearings so you'll have to replace or figure out some way to repair the grooves in the shaft. Just knock the outer shell out with a punch from the opposite side, clean up the bore and press the new ones in.

[davehummell]

If someone would bring that assm. to my shop I see two different repairs weld up the worn shaft with my 110 lincoln mig and throw the shaft in the lathe and turn it down it would work for years if you greased it or get some 660 bronze bushings made up and leave the shaft alone and grease the crap out of it if you were really fussy after you cut down the shaft you could caseinate the outside it would be hard for the rollers.

[HugeHugh]

If I was near PA, then I would bring the assembly by for some work.  I don't have a lathe, yet.  It's been on my mind to get one.  I finally removed the two broken cab mount bolts (1/2"-13) from the hanger yesterday.  I need to punch out the remaining bearing shell today.  The clutch shaft is definitely marred.  The shaft bore is a bigger concern.  It looks like the bearings have worn their way into the bore similar to how the leaf spring pin bushings wore into their bore.  I'll know more when I get the remaining bearing shell out and get an unobstructed view.  I'll check into the 660 bronze bushing idea.  I've been thinking bushings could be the best fix for a shaft and bore in this condition.  Definitely not fussy   Just looking for an adequate fix for now.       

Edited April 28, 2021 by HugeHugh
Correct the bolt size to 1/2-13 from 7/16-14

[Rob]

SAE 660 bronze is also known as "Oilite" bronze and is impregnated with SAE30 oil. It is the best repair for your problem. If you weld up the shaft and turn it to correct dimension it will work for a while but the weld deposition is much softer than the shaft and wear will return at an exponential rate if using a needle bearing setup as original.

I line bored my B-61 back in 1980 or 1981 and used SAE 660 bronze after building the shaft up and grinding it to dimension after hardening. It's been fine since but I did incorporate grease zerks also.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Rob

[HugeHugh]

Thank you Dave and Rob for the great ideas.  I checked the bores where the two needle bearings sit, and the bores are in better shape then I first thought.  The housing bore and the bearing surfaces are not exactly aligned.  Meaning the bearing bores are not in the middle of the housing bore.  Line boring the housing sounds interesting.  I'll take that housing with me when I drop off an AMC 304 V8 for machining, and see what the shop says about the clutch pedal shaft bore.  I can ask about building up and hardening the clutch pedal shaft too.  I found a company in BC Canada, Dendoff, that will make the 2QK2360B springs new for me at a reasonable price.  I don't think my old springs are worth much from a rebuilding standpoint.  Either of you ever buy new rubber pads that hold the springs in the front hanger assembly?  If so, then let me know where you got them.  Thanks again, Earl    

Edited April 30, 2021 by HugeHugh
Correct the spring number

[Rob]

When I did my front springs many years ago the early R model rubber blocks were the same as the B series used. I purchased them from NAPA but they are probably long discontinued through them. I think, but not positive, they are still available from a supplier I use but will have to do some research.

You wouldn't need to harden the clutch cross shaft if bushing with 660 bronze after welding up and turning to dimension. The needle bearings originally rode on that shaft and it was thinly case hardened to withstand this stress. The stress imparted by the clutch and pressure plate setup will be much less and spread out with a bronze bushing at each end. Just keep them greased. 

[Rob]

Try these guys:

https://www.maxitrucks.com/products/spring-insulator-for-mack-10qk332a?variant=83348750340

[davehummell]

I remember back in the 70's a company was advertising spring shackles with roller bearings in theory that design was not an ideal setup roller bearings are made for 360 rotation think like the bottom end of a harley. That clutch shaft should do quite well with the bushings and good grease and if you want to get carried away you could cut some grooves for the grease to get out in the bushes if you get a tight fit on the shaft. Remember true 660 aluminum bronze is very hard and tough. 

[Rob]

I've seen the roller bearing setup in the spring shackle setups in the past. All I've seen need much more attention than they get in practice. Wear in these parts is seemingly accelerated but the ride quality coupled with a parabolic spring arch is unsurpassed when all parts are new. 

[h67st]

17 hours ago, Rob said:

Try these guys:

https://www.maxitrucks.com/products/spring-insulator-for-mack-10qk332a?variant=83348750340

That 10qk332a is the same insulator that went on the front of my H67 leaf springs. PAI makes them also, $40 each.

[Freightrain]

Just had a thought...what about machining a new shaft and just putting the ends back on it?  I don't recall what all is involved at each end?(haven't look at mine lately).  You say you don't have a lathe, but maybe have a shaft made?

[mattb73lt]

I did some digging into my archives and found the left over parts when I rebuilt the clutch cross shaft on my B-73. I'm not sure if the shaft is the same diameter but these part numbers should get you in the ball park.

First, I think you'll need a new shaft if you're going to use ball bearings on it. The brinnelling will not run smoothly over the new bearings. If you put some oil light bronze bushings in, that may do on that shaft.

I found two different size bearings for the application, both from Torrington Bearing Company:

B-2012, which is 3/4" wide.

B-2016, which is 1" wide.

Both are readily available or will cross to other manufacturers.

There are also two types of grease seals for the application, one is felt with steel retainer and the other is a neoprene lip seal. I don't have a part number for the felt one but the neoprene one is:

Chicago Rawhide P/N 12330.

When you press the new bearings in, ensure you line up the grease hole to the fitting. Here are some pics for what I have.