Shifting help!

[Dmurph2016]

So finally got to take my 03 cl713 dump truck out on the road yesterday for the first time. The 8ll is a bit different to get used to, I do have some questions that hopefully can help me. 
 

I have no problem upshifting with or without the clutch, the issue is downshifting, I cannot get it to go back into a gear, any gear, just a whole lot of grinding. The truck liked to be shifted high, 16-1800 rpm, when downshifting do I need to shift in that same range? It does go into gear at 1800 or so rpm but the tach only goes to 2200 and I’d prefer not to blow the engine.

the splitter for low to high range. How exactly does it work if I want  to downshift from say 5th to 4th, if I hit the splitter is it going to throw the trans into 1st gear? Or will it not do anything until I take it out of the gear it’s in (5th) if that makes any sense?

[Mark T]

There should be a sticker (maybe on the sun visor ??) that will have a brief description of range shifting from hi to lo.   Safe bet that from one speed to the other will be pretty close to a 450 RPM difference (up or down)  so a downshift from say 6th to 5th , if the engine was at 1400 RPMs  you'd need to take it up to @ 1800 or 1850 RPMs   (on a relatively flat ground) and to up shift it would go from 1800 to 1400 .   Should get you a little closer trying that than grinding 

[tjc transport]

what he said^^^

to go from high to low, just flip the switch. once taken out of 5th, you can just slip it into 4th. 

it will not shift between high and low unless the trans is in neutral.

[Vladislav]

40 minutes ago, tjc transport said:

what he said^^^

to go from high to low, just flip the switch. once taken out of 5th, you can just slip it into 4th. 

it will not shift between high and low unless the trans is in neutral.

Isn't 8ll a Mack T2080 tranny? If so it shifts right after flipping. No pre-select.

[Mark T]

27 minutes ago, Vladislav said:

Isn't 8ll a Mack T2080 tranny? If so it shifts right after flipping. No pre-select.

Guys usually refer to a Fuller 8 speed as an 8LL here.  It's an 8 speed in the typical repeat H pattern, then has reverse and low ( selected by the shifting lever) and then another low selected by an air shift. (button on shifter or older trucks may have had a valve mounted somewhere other than the shifter) 

[Vladislav]

21 minutes ago, Mark T said:

Guys usually refer to a Fuller 8 speed as an 8LL here.  It's an 8 speed in the typical repeat H pattern, then has reverse and low ( selected by the shifting lever) and then another low selected by an air shift. (button on shifter or older trucks may have had a valve mounted somewhere other than the shifter) 

Ok, thank you for clearification. Sometimes it's difficult to figure the matter just by short description such as "8-speed" or so not dealing with it everyday.

[tjc transport]

the eaton fuller "8LL" is actually a 9 speed with deep reduction gear splitter.

but they call first gear low. so that leaves low, and 8 gears plus a deep reduction splitter. .  hence the 8LL designation. 

 

[Dmurph2016]

1 hour ago, Mark T said:

There should be a sticker (maybe on the sun visor ??) that will have a brief description of range shifting from hi to lo.   Safe bet that from one speed to the other will be pretty close to a 450 RPM difference (up or down)  so a downshift from say 6th to 5th , if the engine was at 1400 RPMs  you'd need to take it up to @ 1800 or 1850 RPMs   (on a relatively flat ground) and to up shift it would go from 1800 to 1400 .   Should get you a little closer trying that than grinding 

I didn’t see a sticker, the previous owner told me it liked to be shifted high and that shuck with me until I took it out and tried it myself. 
My issue with the downshifting was once I got it out of a gear to shift to a lower one I couldn’t get it into any gear, I figure there must be a trick I just don’t know yet! I’ll have to give that a try 

[Mark T]

Quote

You do realize you need to rev the engine up to down shift as you pass through neutral (?)  there's a couple different ways you'll need to approach that too.   Down shifting to slow the truck you'll need to let the RPMs be low enough so you can rev it to be in the next lower gear (usually you need to kinda go a little lower than comes to mind to avoid over revving until you're familiar with it. BUT.... when you're downshifting for power, then you don't let it drop as far before trying. This will also go along with how much more power you need.  Like a steep grade that comes on quick, you'll need to act faster. A long grade where the truck slows gradually you don't need to be as aggressive . Takes a little to get the hang of. and what I've took a try at explaining here is a generalization at best (lol)  an 8LL ?   they're a fairly easy one to learn on on a truck that doesn't have some other issues. 

 

[Mark T]

28 minutes ago, tjc transport said:

the eaton fuller "8LL" is actually a 9 speed with deep reduction gear splitter.

but they call first gear low. so that leaves low, and 8 gears plus a deep reduction splitter. .  hence the 8LL designation. 

 

(lol) and then there's salesmen who make it even more confusing and call them a "ten speed"  

[Dmurph2016]

22 minutes ago, Mark T said:

 

Yes I know you have rev the engine up to downshift, the 8ll is a bit different than the straight 6 speeds I’m used to, i think it’s just finding the sweet spot without over reving is what I need to work on and then it’ll be eaiser. Just need to keep practicing 

[Mark T]

400 to 450 RPMs   watch your tach,  you'll have an easier time finding it 

[Mark T]

1 hour ago, Vladislav said:

Ok, thank you for clearification. Sometimes it's difficult to figure the matter just by short description such as "8-speed" or so not dealing with it everyday.

Mack has a transmission (310 something ??)  has reverse on a yellow button  (not the MLR)  anyway, the ratios of it are all very close to the ratios in the Fuller.  Mack calls it a ten speed, it too has the repeat H for the 8 most used forward gears

[tjc transport]

yup. watch the tack. look at where it tops out, and where it goes into gear. 

but as said, if you pull it out of 4th at 1800, it should slip into 5th at around 1400 to 1450.

same with downshifting run it down to 1200, rev it up to 1600 or 1650 and slip it into next lower gear. 

don't try to force it. just hold it close and it will suck rite itno gear when you find the sweet spot. 

[tjc transport]

10 minutes ago, Mark T said:

Mack has a transmission (310 something ??)  has reverse on a yellow button  (not the MLR)  anyway, the ratios of it are all very close to the ratios in the Fuller.  Mack calls it a ten speed, it too has the repeat H for the 8 most used forward gears

you can tell that trans rite away. instead of shifting low to deep reduction, the side knob is forward reverse. 

here is the Mack T310:

 

 

[Mark T]

1 hour ago, tjc transport said:

you can tell that trans rite away. instead of shifting low to deep reduction, the side knob is forward reverse. 

here is the Mack T310:

 

 

Yep, that's it.  Those have really close ratios to an 8LL but a different approach to the lower gears.  

[Dmurph2016]

Went out for an hour today. Can upshift fine, can’t downshift no matter what I try, only gear I can get from 6to 5th and even then that’s iffy sometimes. I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong

[tjc transport]

Are you using  the clutch?

That is a big no no on these rigs. 

Clutch is for dead stop starting only.

Once rolling forget the clutch is there.

[Mark T]

Don't get frustrated, use the tach. You'll get the hang of it. 

[Dmurph2016]

1 hour ago, Mark T said:

Don't get frustrated, use the tach. You'll get the hang of it. 

The issue is I get frustrated, and then when I can’t find the gear I panic because the people behind me are in such a big rush. I need to work on relaxing 

1 hour ago, tjc transport said:

Are you using  the clutch?

That is a big no no on these rigs. 

Clutch is for dead stop starting only.

Once rolling forget the clutch is there.

No clutch, only to start and stop once rolling. I did figure out my Issue. I was trying to downshift going way too fast. Once my father saw what I was doing he said to slow down and I tried I haven’t had any problems downshifting any of the higher gears. 8-5 didn’t try 4 or below but your almost crawling in those gears and it should be pretty easy.

[Dmurph2016]

Just picked the truck up, they fixed most of the issues, but now I have some new ones. 

The Speedometer just decided that it wanted yo stop working, I’m assuming that’s a wire, hopefully something simple. 
the next issue is truck feels like it’s not building boost. Can have the pedal all the way to the floor and the truck just don’t pull. 
 

im still having trouble with my shifting, better but having trouble downshifting when you come up to a light and it turns green that’s where it seems I’m having the most trouble 

[Onyx610]

The spedo sensor is on the back of the trans between the yoke and the aux case. It’s most likely a black plastic thread in type and has a jam nut. For the down shifting try braking a little (like 5mph) and then a quick blip of the throttle and shift into gear. Down shifting takes time and practice. One day it will just happen. 

[Onyx610]

Does the truck smoke more then usual? Good sign there is a boost leak. I’m not sure if the spedo sensor could have anything to do with it, like fuel delivery? Someone with alot more knowledge then me will be able to help you with that issue.  What work did you have done to the truck?

Edited June 20, 2021 by Onyx610

[DieselDog5.9]

My 2 cents would be to look at it as 2 separate shifts, one to pull out of gear and one to put it into gear.  Personally I tap the clutch to pull out of say 5th gear when down shifting and float the transmission into 4th gear. 

[Dmurph2016]

19 hours ago, Onyx610 said:

Does the truck smoke more then usual? Good sign there is a boost leak. I’m not sure if the spedo sensor could have anything to do with it, like fuel delivery? Someone with alot more knowledge then me will be able to help you with that issue.  What work did you have done to the truck?

No more smoke than usual. It just seems like the power isn’t there it’s strange. I had the shop fix some things I had wrong, some lights. They did have to fix some wiring for the reverse on the trans, maybe they hit the speed sensor or something, I’m going to call them today and see, when I dropped the truck off it was fine, and the Speedo worked so I’m thinking maybe it was something happened when working on it