Joey Mack Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 I am wondering if I can replace the ceramic lifters in an 05' ASET-I 400, with powerleash, with the steel lifters from the early E-Techs? I have done dozens of cam replacements in E-7's and E-Techs, but never swapped lifter types... Thank you, Joey Mack Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I cant help you on this cause i have not had much dealings with the etech.I can remember three trucks i have worked on with that engine. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
880joe Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 I had ceramic lifter fail and mack dealer wouldn't put steel lifter back in Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 push rods are different on ceramic would cost you to covert ! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 (edited) Pushrods with the ceramic are spring loaded on exhaust side correct? To keep consistent pressure on the cam with the brake bump? I believe they need to be changed to standard tubes and so do the rocker arms, something to do with oil galleries I think. I could be completely wrong. Edited June 29, 2021 by Onyx610 Punctuation Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=96999 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Ok.. the intake pushrods are 417's... same as the first generation on both valves.. Yes the exhaust has spring loaded rods... For the back cut on the cam... I am not trying to answer my own question .. I guess I was hoping to hear... hell yes you can swap them. I measured them and they seemed to be the same... My customer is pissed about the second lifter failure, because the roller broke and destroyed his new cam during run-in. It's the Chicken- Egg thing here... Did the lifter roller break, or did this H-Ring decide to move... H-Rings checked good during cam job.. Now I have the heads off and we are going to re-build it... Unfortunately there have been a few others in this engine, including the owner who said he adjusted the valve's previously, and after a while..... here I am trying to make Chicken Salad out of Chicken sh#t... Anyway...... Jojo 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 I had a strong feeling i was relaying information you already knew haha. Maybe someday I will be able to help you out… Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 Thank you... I don't know as much as I need to know, when I come upon these issues... If I was first on the scene,,, good chance the engine would be making money for my customer... I always look forward to youre knowedge... jojo 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
880joe Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 So can you use the spring loaded pushrods with the steel rollers? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 4 hours ago, 880joe said: So can you use the spring loaded pushrods with the steel rollers? 4 hours ago, 880joe said: So can you use the spring loaded pushrods with the steel rollers? Sorry never tried it so I don't know ! Jojo they caution about dropping those ceramic lifters as they break or crack real easy! Just Saying It don't take much! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Apparently if they are dropped they are trash regardless. That’s what Mack says anyways…I’m sure he knows this. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 Yes, I am aware of dropping them. What I did was have my helper 'the owner' install 2 at a time as I moved the cam inward. I was very careful... I was not there when the owner 'who wanted to finish it himself', finished the job and started the engine.. This is the first and last time I let anyone finish and start it without my being there... I don't know what happened... This is the first cam job mishap in 20 years... 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 880Joe... I think you can, but I have never done it... That is what I was hoping to learn on this one..... The spring-loaded pushrods are to keep the lifter roller on the cam back-cut... (exh. side),,can someone please tell me i'm wrong....I want to learn!!!, regardless of how long I've been doing this.. Of course the 2 Mack dealers in my area,,,, and I quote.... " Have No clue".... I wish I had a Swedish Speaking friend who could translate, Jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 I wonder why they wouldn’t go ahead and use them on the intake side as well? As they claim it also helps with “valve clatter” 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
880joe Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 I've been told you could use spring loaded ones and have an engine with steel rollers and spring loaded push rods acording to my mechanics. But that engine also didn't sound right through the intake and nobody could figure out why Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vmac3 Posted July 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 1, 2021 You certainly can use the spring loaded pushrods on steel rollers. Just remember to plug off the oil feed hole from the rockers with a rivet. Joey you are correct in saying that the spring loaded pushrods are the same length when they are compressed as the 417 pushrods. I have seen a non engine brake ETech with spring loaded pushrods on the intake side as well. I am not sure if it was factory installed or it was installed by another dealer. It came in because the cam was wiped out. Joey its not your fault. Installing ceramic lifters takes extra time and care and I am sure with your experience you know and have done them plenty of times. I used a magnet and placed the lifter onto the cam using a long screwdriver. Also I was very careful installing the pushrods, also I put oil on the end of the pushrod and feel the surface tension of the lifter and pushrod. So many things could have happened, such as, when the rockers are installed and if they are not installed correctly, when torquing the top end, if the pushrod(s) are not installed correctly, and when the engine is turned you will hear a "SNAP". If it has a ceramic lifter, well then its toast. I was never a fan of these ceramic lifters simply because it does not take much for them to get damaged. Just my 2 cents. V 2 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 Yes "V" we are on the same page... when I torque the rocker shafts I go slow and with one hand push down on the rockers to keep them seated, so there wont be a ,, SNAP!! :(.. I have H-Ring tools coming from California, I'm going to do an in-frame on it now and replace the H-Rings.. I measured them before installing the cam, and they seemed to be good, no 'high ones'.. now the #1 intake H-Ring is out and #5 lifter magnet was slightly higher than the others. I really just want to put steel lifters back in... I wish I had a steel roller engine with spring loaded push rods. So I could hear and see how it runs......... I remember doing the Jake brake oil feed update many years ago, and popping the rivet into the rocker arms.. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 So today I pulled the liners and re-checked the h-rings and found 3 more that were too high... It's been a billion years since I did an h-ring and now I have an engine that has 4 dislodged rings.. Go-figure?? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 That's shitty Bro ! but at least you found something! We just did a cam a month ago there were two e up pins sheared off and the the eup lobe was destroyed on number one ! at least you can see when the pins are broken the H rings are almost impossible to check! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) at first I checked them by eye and with a rod to check depth, i could not check rotation, I just received the installer tool and the alignment checker is on its way. $725.00 out of pocket for the tools, however, I get calls to build E-Techs and E-7's often, so mabey I will switch-up how I do things and turn my shop into an engine room. I have a few other essential engine tools. I need a good engine stand. the one I have is custom made for E-6's.. just rambling, jojo Edited July 3, 2021 by Joey Mack More content needed Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Joey i used a engine stand back in the early 70s but after that i and all of us used a steel table and to me its almost as good.The table will fit all engines and can be used for trans and rear ends also. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 Just curiuos, how did you rotate the bigger engines? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 joey we use a hoist and started with block up side down then layed the crank.And rolled it to its side and by the time it was standing up right it was built.I always set them on the floor to set heads on and to torque and by that time the pan was on it.We had a stand at the freightliner dearer years ago but problem was it takes too many different adapters for different engines so last time i saw it was in the scrape.I like it for 8V DD engines or any V8.I no see them any more. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 I figured you had a hoist.. I can probably do something like that. I Have a Moffet Mounty forklift that I use to do the engines thus far. It does good. a complete E-6 on the stand that I have is just light enough that my machine can handle it... Thanks for your input Glenn.. Happy 4th!!! Joey Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/67164-replacing-ceramic-lifters-with-the-steel-lifters/#findComment-476312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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