Started my 44K Hub Pilot Conversion....

[Fastduramax]

I finally started my hub pilot conversion, kind of had to as you will see in the pics lol... Anyway a few questions for anyone who has done it as I cant seem to  get a concrete answer around here... My spoke hubs had the bearing spacers or washers that slide over the spindle and rest between the spindle shoulder and inner bearing, I was told both to use the spacer and not to use it UGH ! Here are my concerns, check out the pic there is clearly a huge difference in the offset of the bogeys, but will obviously equal out when I'm done, second, I wasn't overly thrilled with the short distance my Voyager seal slid onto the spindle shoulder but that said I've run the piss out of her for 2 days now and no leaking seal... Anyone who's been here please chime in ! I'll post the pics....

[Fastduramax]

Not letting me post pics for some reason

[Fastduramax]

Offset Pic

[Fastduramax]

Hard to see the spacer but its there

[Fastduramax]

[mrsmackpaul]

Hmmmmmm, I don't know of anyone in Australia that has done this

Our 44's look different in Australia and have a big cone on the out side and a axle with a spline on each end that floats 

I do believe there is a large bush, spacer or washer on the inside of the inside bearing, goes between the bearing and the axle housing

I would use the brake shoe as a guid, if it's still sitting in the drum in the correct position I would call it good 

 

Paul

[Licensed to kill]

I will be doing the opposite, changing hub pilots to 6 spoke daytons. I am told that the inner bearing on the spokes is smaller than on the budds and that there is not a bearing available to fit so I may have to have the spoke hub machined to accept a bigger race. What did you find regarding bearing sizes?. 

[Fastduramax]

Not a thing, I used the same bearing part number as were in the spoke hubs just used new Timken that’s it 

[Fastduramax]

LTK, what in creation possessed you to convert to spoke hubs ! There is nothing good on earth about spoke hubs except possibly nostalgia... The genius engineer that invented the spoke hub should have he or she's nut sack removed with a butter knife because that's about how it feels when you're done doing a brake job on spoke hubs ! 

[Licensed to kill]

1 hour ago, Fastduramax said:

LTK, what in creation possessed you to convert to spoke hubs ! There is nothing good on earth about spoke hubs except possibly nostalgia... The genius engineer that invented the spoke hub should have he or she's nut sack removed with a butter knife because that's about how it feels when you're done doing a brake job on spoke hubs ! 

LOL. Understood. I never really liked daytons. However, I'm doing a B-61 and IMO, the steers on a B Model don't look right with polished budds and the daytons with the "Mack" script cap look really good to me so I'm sticking with the spokes. Putting a diff from a 2016 Freightshaker with air ride and have to covert them. Pretty sure I'm the only guy in history to change hub pilots to spokes. FWIW, my brother prefers spokes over hub pilots because they never come loose and they never crack. The only sad part is that to use the 8 bolt axles I have to use newer spokes that are somewhat square, not rounded like the ones that came on the B's. The chance of using the hubs that came with the truck with the 6 bolt axles on this much newer diff is pretty remote to say the least. I'll be running 10.00R20's in the rear (again, because the 20" rim just looks right on these trucks) and 11R22.5 on the steer (to eliminate the split ring AND because tires are easy to get). 

[mrsmackpaul]

1 hour ago, Fastduramax said:

LTK, what in creation possessed you to convert to spoke hubs ! There is nothing good on earth about spoke hubs except possibly nostalgia... The genius engineer that invented the spoke hub should have he or she's nut sack removed with a butter knife because that's about how it feels when you're done doing a brake job on spoke hubs ! 

Well I guess it depends on the part of the world you live in, I personally prefer them, quick to change, stronger than 10 stud bud rims and are pretty quick and simple to handle

 

Paul 

[Freightrain]

When I slipped the air ride under my B, I converted the budds back to spoke to match the front axle.  I didn't want the mismatched look.  The yard I got the clip from gave me the spoke hubs.

If I ever find a budd hubs for the front I have the rear parts.

 

[Vladislav]

I also like the idea of checking the hub position by observing relation of the drum to the shoes. The spacers/washers were definitely used to make correct hub fit. Too probably there were different styles of hubs used with that axle housing and there was a need of spacers in some wariations.

I once also met something like your situation when changed bearings on a MH-model. The axles were Mack on airride so I supposed they were 38000lbs. The hubs were spokes to fit 24.5 rims with Mack script cast on them. The bearings were 582/572 with 563/567 as it supposed to be for Mack axle of the spoken axle rating. But the seal was NOT 4-1/2 x 5-3/4 as it typically is (and should be) but 4-5/8x6. There were spacer sleeves pressed onto the spindle shoulder to increase the OD from 4-1/2 and I would expect that as a home made conversion. But the hubs were bored to 6 inch not 5-3/4. I too doubt someone machined the hubs for larger OD seals but who knows.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Vladislav

[JoeH]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:40 PM, Fastduramax said:

LTK, what in creation possessed you to convert to spoke hubs ! There is nothing good on earth about spoke hubs except possibly nostalgia... The genius engineer that invented the spoke hub should have he or she's nut sack removed with a butter knife because that's about how it feels when you're done doing a brake job on spoke hubs ! 

I had a blowout on a rear drive tire last week I couldn't drive on as the alligator was still half attached.  Was flapping around doing damage to the back of my truck body.  Had to have a pair of tires brought to me from the shop.  Way easier to tighten 6 spoke lugnuts than 10 Budd lugnuts with a cross wrench.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

On 7/28/2021 at 6:28 AM, mrsmackpaul said:

Hmmmmmm, I don't know of anyone in Australia that has done this

Our 44's look different in Australia and have a big cone on the out side and a axle with a spline on each end that floats 

I do believe there is a large bush, spacer or washer on the inside of the inside bearing, goes between the bearing and the axle housing

I would use the brake shoe as a guid, if it's still sitting in the drum in the correct position I would call it good 

 

Paul

I have seen 44's with both the "integrated flange" on the axle and with the "double splined" axle you describe.  Loved the look of the cone cap on the double splined setup.

Most of the Macks we had when I was a young man had the double splined axes, and we carried spare axle shafts in the cab with us.  Changed out one or two on the side of the road.  Sometimes getting the broken bit out of the rear could be a pain.  usually involved removing the other side and poking a broom handle through the carrier!

[mrsmackpaul]

I have never known a 44 Mack axle to break, even in roadtrain work I have never heard of it happening, extremely heavy  haulage type of work I have heard of it happening but never seen it

Learning something new everyday 

 

Paul

[doubleclutchinweasel]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:37 PM, mrsmackpaul said:

I have never known a 44 Mack axle to break, even in roadtrain work I have never heard of it happening, extremely heavy  haulage type of work I have heard of it happening but never seen it

Learning something new everyday 

 

Paul

Usually because some numbskull jerked on it too hard!  Really, really tough axles.  We also used Spicer U-joints, and carried a set of those with us.  You could do a lot of repairs on-site if you had a few spare parts.  All we had were spoke wheels, too.  So, they were super easy to change with basic hand tools.  Not as much torque required as on a disc wheel.

By the way, really enjoyed some of your last pics, Paul.

[Steve L]

I’ve never heard of a 44 Mack axle breaking either and I have been around road trains and heavy haulage all my life. As for the bud wheels “leave them in the show room” gimmee 6 spoke spiders any day 

[Mark T]

(lol)  never heard of an axle break ????  Can't say it's a common thing, but it's not real uncommon . The axles with the splined plate on the end were referred to here as " full floating " used to see them with gear oil seeping out around the soft plug as they aged.  You guys down under might be amused to see some of the clever solutions to fishing out the broken part of the axle shafts. Broom sticks (as mentioned) and if you were really ambitious you'd fab up a little shovel made of small exhaust pipe on a long piece of cold rolled.  Then determine how much of it you were able to get out..... then determine if the carrier needed to be taken out (lol)  You'd even learn the distinctive different sound the flange would make on semi-floating axles when you'd hit them to get them out .  and NO.... this wasn't exclusively a Mack problem .

[Hayseed]

I've Broken Most Things, But Never an Axle..💥

 

Most Common Way to remove them I know is to;

Slide a bit of Polythene or PVC pipe/Tube  in over the Broken Bit & get your stick welder with a bit of heavy Wire or Light Rod & stick It to the Broken Bit & pull out..

or a  Strong magnet on a Rod or a broom handle & pull It Out through the PVC/ Poly...

 

@Mark T We're Talking about 44,000 LB Mack axles Not Braking.. Not Axles in general..

[Mark T]

Yes, 44,000 pound Mack axles.   Seen plenty of them turned into junk.  ( FYI  the ones they call 46000 pound as well )

[doubleclutchinweasel]

"If you can make it, somebody can break it."

Thus sayeth The Weasel...

[Fastduramax]

Well 3 years in and I must say hub pilot conversion is the best thing I've ever done to the old girl bar none... 2 things to say, first the truck should have been ordered hub pilot, second I should have converted it 20 years ago when I bought the old girl... Now I just need someone's recipe on building a 600HP E7 !

[mrsmackpaul]

Sounds like a positive response then

 

What has made it so much better ? A few more details on what has improved If you don't mind

 

Paul 

[Fastduramax]

Well Paul it's a long list so I'll start out vane, she's sooooo much prettier ! Easier to keep clean, your duals always run dead nuts true with no fuss tightening down lug nuts and wedges properly, lightened up my tare weight by nearly 1,000 pounds, doing a shoe slap takes half the time and if you have to do your wheel seal it's a one man job, when I was about 25 I could lift off a spoke hub and put it back on myself but not anymore lol, you never have to worry about spinning a wheel and wiping out a valve stem... Oh and did I mention the COOL factor lol !