2005 CX 470 ETEC pushing coolant

[Elitedownunder]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:03 AM, Joey Mack said:

Yes....  I was taught this procedure years ago by a 65 year old grumpy, MF'r....   Take the belt off the engine, by-pass the water lines for the air compressor, pull the top radiator pipe off, remove the thermostat, and put the housing back on, leave the short hose on top of the thermostat housing, fill the cooling system til' the water is at the top of the thermo housung,... which leaves 4-6 inches of hose sticking up off of the thermo housing , which will give room to watch the water perculate, like a coffee pot, pretty quickly if there is a head/gasket issue....you can let it run for 30 minutes or more at idle without overheating it. and just watch for bubbles in the top rad. hose... compression leaks will show up early.. i did chase a series 60 detroit that took a long run time before proving there was a head issue. I diagnosed it, but did not repair it... anyway,  Good luck..... jojo

Joey was going to do this but thought you couldn’t keep coolant in it since the top radiator hose was gone and expelling it all. I don’t know how you did it. 
Anyway it’s still doing it and I’m out of ideas so I put a manual override switch for the Horton in which I hope should do the trick until the problem becomes worse and raises it head but I’m not pulling it down if they’re is nothing internal showing. Will keep you updated guys.

[br549]

You can take a radiator pressure gauge and take the fitting out and hook up a long hose and put a fitting in the bottom of a clear gallon plastic jug and fill it up about a 1/4 way with water or antifreeze and hang it on the mirror of the truck and run it sitting or drive it down the road and watch for air bubbles, also make sure there is not a air controlled heater cut off in the heater lines, had one on a 1995 CH with sleeper that air was leaking on the valve and on a hard pull would start pushing coolant out.  Had one truck that was passing thru town pushing coolant out and only get hot on a pull it had already had 2 sets of head gaskets put on in at a MACK dealer in  Florida, pull heads and found a 1/8 dot that looked like a sand pit in the sleeve, call the company ( a major trucking co 2000 trucks) and told them we needed to pull the sleeve and they said sleeve was to thick to do that and to put head gaskets on it.  Took it down the road on a hard pull and it started pushing water out again, called company back and they said to pull sleeve. Pull sleeve out and put welding dye on pit, red on inside and white on outside and afterward it turned pink, replace sleeve, truck was OK.

[Joey Mack]

with the belt off the water pump, there wont be any flow, so the water will be "still" until combustion pressure enters the cooling system...  no biggie, its a bit of work to do this test, but a heck of a lot less time than pulling heads that didnt need to be pulled, plus the cost of gaskets and bolts,, and whatever else decides to break.....  Good luck sir, Jojo

[fjh]

On 9/1/2021 at 6:03 PM, Joey Mack said:

Yes....  I was taught this procedure years ago by a 65 year old grumpy, MF'r....   Take the belt off the engine, by-pass the water lines for the air compressor, pull the top radiator pipe off, remove the thermostat, and put the housing back on, leave the short hose on top of the thermostat housing, fill the cooling system til' the water is at the top of the thermo housung,... which leaves 4-6 inches of hose sticking up off of the thermo housing , which will give room to watch the water perculate, like a coffee pot, pretty quickly if there is a head/gasket issue....you can let it run for 30 minutes or more at idle without overheating it. and just watch for bubbles in the top rad. hose... compression leaks will show up early.. i did chase a series 60 detroit that took a long run time before proving there was a head issue. I diagnosed it, but did not repair it... anyway,  Good luck..... jojo

This idea works best on these   by pulling the the stat housing right off fill the coolant to the top of the stat housing then run the engine you can then better identify front head or back head! Also I believe there was a TSB on this ! a thermostat housing change up of some sort  Mackpro may remember! It was about some markings or dots on housings identifying a changeup for coolant push they did!

[Mackpro]

I’ll see if I can find the service bulletin and post it here. It was more than a thermostat housing change if I remember, it was for the 2003.5 and 2004’s, by 2005/2006 most truck had the updated parts from the factory. The thermostats themselves were a 180 and a 185 degree, where they both would not open at the same time causing a coolant surge. 

[br549]

SB215025 AC engines,  SB215026 AI engines.

[Mackpro]

https://f01.justanswer.com/HeavyEquipmentTech/6bc71206-6fd3-4357-bdfd-e51101cf15ec_Mack+cooling+system+revisions+SB215025.pdf For the AC engine 

[fjh]

19 hours ago, Mackpro said:

I’ll see if I can find the service bulletin and post it here. It was more than a thermostat housing change if I remember, it was for the 2003.5 and 2004’s, by 2005/2006 most truck had the updated parts from the factory. The thermostats themselves were a 180 and a 185 degree, where they both would not open at the same time causing a coolant surge. 

😍 Yup!  New you would find it! Yup the stat thing is important for sure I watched this happen many times even stats would  Shock the system enough to shake the upper rad hose when they opened! Wicked Surge!

Edited September 9, 2021 by fjh

[Elitedownunder]

Thanks guys and Joey yes your right of course no belt no movement so will try this today.

FJH and Mackpro this is a Etech on a CX Vision so only has a single thermostat no EGR and pancake oil cooler.

[Joey Mack]

Good luck.... jojo  keep in touch

[Mackpro]

There was a issue with the cartridge style water pumps where air could be sucked in through the weep hole.  Causing coolant push . There is a  bulletin on removing the water pump , turning it upside down and filling the cavity up with water then apply 10 psi air pressure to the weep hole and watch for bubbles. 

[Elitedownunder]

Ok Joey tried your trick and yes I brought it up to 180F and only then it was producing large bubbles every few seconds but I didn’t bypass the compressor because I didn’t have a hose so will try again tomorrow with comp bypassed. 
The comp head is a reconditioned I put on the other week so I think I’m shit out of luck. 
what odds have with you guys being 1. Head gasket. 2. Dropped liner ? 

[Joey Mack]

should be no bubbles, because air pockets will clear due to removed thermo's... I did this a year and a half ago on a 90 E-7.. It took a bit to push coolant, so I wasnt sure.. then I did my test and it made bubbles after a few minutes, not instantly.  front head was cracked between the intake valves...  jojo

[Joey Mack]

as far as bypassing the compressor.. you can cap the 2 lines.. dont know if you have the newer (2001 'ish) stand pipe update with the #6 JIC fitting. but you can screw any kind of plastic plug into the ends, even if there is a tiny drip, I suggest plastic plugs because you can destroy them and not hurt the threads on the ends that you will hook back up.... remember no water pump or pressure in this test... you got this... JOJO

[Elitedownunder]

Joey, yes, same result with comp bypassed….so will pull heads or tomorrow and let you know. Thanks mate

[Joey Mack]

youre welcome,  sorry about the hard work you are about to do...  you know where to come if you need more help...👍  jojo

[Vmac3]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:34 AM, Vmac3 said:

Yes. 

V

My apologies for giving false information. Install the seal so the lip is facing the radiator. 

V

[Elitedownunder]

Thanks Vmac3 …….and I’ve now removed the heads and they look ok so now I will magnaflux before going any further…I have inadvertently chipped a couple of the liners removing the heads but the fire rings cover it so what do you guys think? 

[fjh]

You need to check your liner protrusion spec is 19 to 28 thou   I beleive  ! However my  experience  tells me that anything below 22 is  too low and in my opinion Borderline!  anything above 24 to 28 is good and your allowed 2 thou between cyls under the same head ! Very important on  any E7 But  specially on a 400 plus HP engine just saying ! I have reluctantly  used them it a chip on the top and had decent luck  How ever Its your call! Check the protrusion this is most important!

Just sayin

[Elitedownunder]

Thanks FJH

[Elitedownunder]

No cracks in the heads via dye test…..though 2 X inlet valves are pulled…where do measure liners with a slide guage ? Up on the very top of where the fire rings sit?

[Joey Mack]

[Vmac3]

Measure the liner protrusion in two spots opposite of each other. This will give you an idea if the liner is sitting true in the block.

V 

[Elitedownunder]

Liner protrusion is all good with .002 across all and heads are fine ….except for pulled inlet valves. So next anyone.

[fjh]

13 hours ago, Elitedownunder said:

Liner protrusion is all good with .002 across all and heads are fine ….except for pulled inlet valves. So next anyone.

If you measured  where Joe said to measure there you WANT to See 24 or better for a 470 hp engine Just sayin! You can MAYBE get away with less on a lower HP engine but not highly recommended  ! And 002 thou definitely wont cut it! .002 between liners is OK under the same head As long as the lowest is 24  or better!

ALSO note !  Have you pulled the injectors? Were there any with carbon on the bottom of the bore where they seal ? We have ran across them where the injector COULD NOT be removed from the head  even with a porta power they were so clogged with carbon! And there are instances where the compression can get by the injector sleeve ! Seen it happen.

 

Just sayin

Edited September 21, 2021 by fjh