MillennialTrucker93 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 I’m looking for some diagnostic information on my 2005 Cv713 Ai-400. Recently it’s been going in and out of limp mode a lot and it seems to be getting worse. Last year (2020) I replaced all 6 EUP pumps that greatly woke the engine up from the dead after I bought it and about 5 months later I’m starting to get abnormal frequency and pulse codes on specific pumps. 1 at a time I’ve been swapping with newly rebuilt pumps under warranty however Rochester diesel is saying this is rare to have so many fail. I’m looking for ideas that would simulate a bad eup or cause them to prematurely fail in the computer but be something else. After replacing individual eup’s the problem moves to another one. I had all 6 programmed into the computer originally last year and months of 0 problems however with the constant issues I’m having now with this limp mode and pumps I’m hesitant to keep making appointments down Mack to get the next replacement programmed. And when I say constantly in and out of limp I’m saying pulling a hill “while it’s not specific to hills” about a mile it hits roughly 4-5 times for about 3 seconds a piece. I’m getting frustrated because pumps are not cheap even rebuilt so I’m looking for ideas before I’m out of options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillennialTrucker93 Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 UPDATE: I went to have the computer checked again and no inactive code now for EUP. But the motor keeps dropping in and out. I read somewhere that this may be a communication issue between the ecu and eup called a BIP? Anyone ever heard of this. Assuming it may need flashed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) Beginning Injection Pressure. There is a special tool for this I believe. It will check the EUP response time and voltage. Edited August 31, 2021 by Onyx610 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macktech20 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I would check fuel pressure off of the fuel pump, I've had a couple of those engines that did the exact same thing you're describing and it was caused by low fuel pressure. Are you having multiple unit pumps code at the same time? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 I’m gonna go with what Macktech20 said. Low fuel pressure can set of random and multiple EUP fault codes. Back in my dealership Programing days , I remember seeing the term “BIP” when describing engine model and horsepower as in “AI427BIP” but never got an explanation to what it means. Not all engines had the term BIP in the data files I saw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillennialTrucker93 Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) Got the computer flashed and changed nothing. No codes present or inactive as well. I’ll replace the pump next. It’s something causing the computer to kick electrical for sure just not any codes. Just can’t find it. Edited September 27, 2021 by MillennialTrucker93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 I would still check fuel pressure as stated above! Also if its a mack 18 speed disconnect the torque limit switch on the shift cyl at the back of the trans! and see if this helps! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillennialTrucker93 Posted September 29, 2021 Author Share Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) On 9/3/2021 at 1:07 PM, Macktech20 said: I would check fuel pressure off of the fuel pump, I've had a couple of those engines that did the exact same thing you're describing and it was caused by low fuel pressure. Are you having multiple unit pumps code at the same time? Since I replaced all 6 pumps last year only 1 has come back with a code. Faulty rebuilt pump got a new one under warranty. Now it’s acting like it did with a eup throwing a code but no codes Active or inactive. Seems to do it in the higher rpm ranges more often. It’s like lifting my foot off the pedal half way then back to full throttle does it with the cruise control and without so can’t be the pedal which is new anyways. I got a fuel pump on order but back ordered as usual. It’s not missing and running smooth other than that Edited September 29, 2021 by MillennialTrucker93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 The gear on the pump shaft could be fine at idle and lower rpm range, but once the rpms get higher and the shaft spins faster the gear could spinning on the shaft. Could be…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, Onyx610 said: The gear on the pump shaft could be fine at idle and lower rpm range, but once the rpms get higher and the shaft spins faster the gear could spinning on the shaft. Could be…. Bro (Take the advice) posted ! Not trying to be an ass here! But were trying to help! you need check the fuel pressure you need to have at min 60 psi prefer a little more how ever.........! Just sayin! Also remove the elbow at the primary fuel filter from the tank and check for debris in it I have seen rags fuel conditioner lid inserts and rocks stuck in this elbow! several times! just some more things to look for! This will likely show up on the fuel pressure check as low pressure when you stomp on the throttle the pressure will drop off if there is a restriction or a loose gear , where normally it would increase some! Edited September 30, 2021 by fjh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 6 hours ago, fjh said: Bro (Take the advice) posted ! Not trying to be an ass here! But were trying to help! you need check the fuel pressure you need to have at min 60 psi prefer a little more how ever.........! Just sayin! Also remove the elbow at the primary fuel filter from the tank and check for debris in it I have seen rags fuel conditioner lid inserts and rocks stuck in this elbow! several times! just some more things to look for! This will likely show up on the fuel pressure check as low pressure when you stomp on the throttle the pressure will drop off if there is a restriction or a loose gear , where normally it would increase some! I’m not the one looking for advice. I posted about what could possibly be going on with the fuel pump…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Fuel Pressure........................... 80- 100 PSI. jojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 11:56 AM, Onyx610 said: I’m not the one looking for advice. I posted about what could possibly be going on with the fuel pump…. The fuel pumps on the a feable on these the shaft seal can give out and they can wear to the point they wont pump ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillennialTrucker93 Posted October 3, 2021 Author Share Posted October 3, 2021 Thank you for the pressure ranges. I’m going to test them this week however my fuel pump is on national back order due to supply shortages. I’ve been tinkering with other things. I’ve also heard that the old fuel lines may close under full throttle prior to the pump. Just changed all the filters this week as well. Nothing in the primary filter before the pump but the secondary filter after when I dumped it out was fairly gross looking. Light grey and dark looked like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 looks like you may need to replace the braided lines... they may have broken inside and created a blockage/restriction... by the way, everything but free government money is on back order. Keep it in mind for future repairs... I had to add 6 weeks to an engine that i'm building in my shop... in the olden days, (2-4 years ago) it would have been done by now.... keep in touch... Jojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillennialTrucker93 Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 Ok I got some fuel pressure numbers for someone to take a look at Idle fuel pressure 60psi at 1600rpm no load 75psi at highway speeds 1600rpm full load I’m getting a drop down to 60psi and holding. I let off the throttle back up to 75 close to 80psi. its stayed consistent throughout the whole day of work is that pressure drop normal??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 pressure should stay steady at around 100... 80 is ok, but 'steady' is key...the pressure drop/change may be the regulator in the pump. I think it's in the pump because you may not have a fuel return line coming out of the block around #4... My guess is the fuel lift pump is in the filter assembly inside the right front corner of the engine... jojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillennialTrucker93 Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) Yes it is the secondary filter/ pump assembly mounted to the motor. I do also have a return fuel line coming out of the block at #4 could something be wrong there? Edited October 9, 2021 by MillennialTrucker93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 the 45 degree fitting is the pressure regulator... some of the originals have the press rating stamped in them, and say 80 PSI... put a new version in it. it will be a 100 PSI regulator.... I was vague about the return line earlier... i was thinking about the 1/4" line, and not about the #6 line with the JIC fittings, Sorry, Jojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillennialTrucker93 Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 On 10/8/2021 at 5:34 PM, Joey Mack said: pressure should stay steady at around 100... 80 is ok, but 'steady' is key...the pressure drop/change may be the regulator in the pump. I think it's in the pump because you may not have a fuel return line coming out of the block around #4... My guess is the fuel lift pump is in the filter assembly inside the right front corner of the engine... jojo So did some digging and found the part you were talking about out of the block but my local dealer and anything I could find on this valve only says 54psi +-7psi relief/check valve. The part number is 691GC228M2 valve. On 10/8/2021 at 5:34 PM, Joey Mack said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, MillennialTrucker93 said: So did some digging and found the part you were talking about out of the block but my local dealer and anything I could find on this valve only says 54psi +-7psi relief/check valve. The part number is 691GC228M2 valve. The pressure started out At 100 psi when the eteck first came out They lowered it as they had trouble with the EUP orings were hard to seal As I said earlier long as the fuel pressure stays between 60 and 80 full load it will run and pull fine ! The key here is the fuel pressure should stay above 60 when under load! When you stomp on the pedal in a no load condition the pressure should Go Up Not Down! The numbers you posted are good numbers! Very reasonable from what I have witnessed over the years! just sayin Edited October 12, 2021 by fjh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 "F" I'm glad you posted the fuel pressure info, I didn't know the pressure was reduced for the ASET's... I have 4 of them in the fleet I maintain. I will keep that in mind for the future.. Jojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Joey Mack said: "F" I'm glad you posted the fuel pressure info, I didn't know the pressure was reduced for the ASET's... I have 4 of them in the fleet I maintain. I will keep that in mind for the future.. Jojo Yup joe I didn't want to create an argument about it the opportunity arose to correct the statement here so I took it! 😇 The hundred psi statment was not an un truth just old news that had been revised!😌 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 "F"... Thank you.. The truth is that I welcome youre input and "Corrections" I do not take offense, I take it as a teaching moment for me.. sometimes I forget or mabey didn't know... With respect to you .. jojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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